Mark said:
@mbzcollector The car is represented as an AMG by your consignor and by @MBMarket, listing it as "1990 Mercedes-Benz 560SEL AMG" and @MBMarket in the "Market Insight" summary saying "In recent years the value of ‘pre-merger’ AMG cars have begun to soar. As these cars continue to grab the spotlight at auctions and private sales alike, the values only seem to be rising. " ....all strongly indicating this is a real AMG and *it's not, plain and simple*. That's deception by any other name. You know that and anyone that has familiarity with AMG's beyond surface level knowledge should know this. I see from your profile here you've bought some nice MB's (E55 AMG, C43 AMG and a non AMG E500 Limited), all great cars, so you know what a real AMG is and this is not one. Regarding your comment to @amgpro "I’m glad you have a real AMG car and this is a fake one"..... I give you credit, at least you now acknowledge this car is not a real AMG. Your car actually looks nice (as I stated below) and has some really interesting upgrades over std 560 SEL e..g OZ wheels, transmission, interior looks great etc., which I and others mentioned below. @MBMarket and you could do yourselves and everyone else a favor by fixing the listing desc (maybe to AMG "Tribute" if your into those kind of descriptions) andfiixing the misleading "Market Insights" summary that strongly implies this car is an AMG. What's with the @anyotherhater stuff? Someone asks some basic questions and brings up legitimate questions (and it turns out - their suspicions turn out to be true) and they're a "hater"?? Hater = 21st century "social media speak" - someone points out highly pertinent true facts that the recipient doesn't like and the person pointing out the truth is a "hater"???
...the good news is you just answered everyones question about is it an legit AMG or not....and not to the way you intended.
@blakleyleonard "I would deem it as an authentic AMG car that now has some modifications added to it". You can't be serious. So if I go buy a used MB and buy bodykit parts (even legit AMG parts from that period) and put it on the car you would deem it an "authentic AMG"? To my point below - if I buy a 993 and put RUF gauges, wheels, steering wheel - and it was never touched by RUF nor has any RUF mods - can I see that car as a RU and y=woud you consider it an authentic RUF?
@TheMBMarket I think any of us that have bought and/or sold cars on any of the popular online auction websites are sensitive to the fact that you don't want to inadvertently (or worse intentionally) hurt someones auction. Having said that - when there are very legitimate concerns about a cars authenticity regarding how it is listed/presented, the commenters often can help clear things up (and help an auction and help a seller - I've seen legit calls mistakenly called into question) or bring issues to light that may prevent a buyer from getting a bad surprise. I think the issues that others have pointed out or indirectly referenced need to be answered: - This car is listed as "1990 Mercedes-Benz 560SEL AMG". There is legitimate question/concern whether this is a real AMG or not. That would make a huge difference in valuation. Without getting into details of what "real AMG" is -I think its generally accepted that typically it means modified by AMG (Germany, Westmont or Japan) with AMG parts NOT that an AMG bodykit and appearance items were added to a car by some 3rd party after the fact (whether from "real AMG parts" or 3rd party ones selling knock-offs as AMG parts). - As @48hp points out below - that is most definitely NOT an AMG steering wheel. Someone produced that and put an AMG logo on airbag - but not AMG Germany, Japan or Westmont. - Also as @48hp points out "The gauge faces, door sills plates and exhaust tips are period correct in appearance but they also appear to be aftermarket reproduction add-on items. - While not all AMG's that were done in Germany, Japan or Westmont received performance upgrades - that (performance upgrades) was the core of AMG's business. This car does not appear to have any AMG performance upgrades. I actually think this car looks really good. I think the transmission upgrade on this car is excellent (better transmission that was available on most pre-merger AMG's, even with AMG upgrades back then). The interior looks excellent. Overall it appears to be a very nice car. I like it a lot. If I were a serious buyer (I am not in this case), I would buy this car and send it to Blue Ridge MB (Jono) in GA and have him upgrade the engine to perform like/better than period correct AMG engine from that period and be really happy with the final product (upgraded engine with this good transmission and car in this condition) - but would not call it an AMG. Unless there is some kind of documentation or history that shows this is an AMG, then I think @TheMBMarket you are doing your customer's a disservice listing it as that. Would you take a 993 Porsche and put RUF gauges, steering wheel etc. on it and call it a RUF? I could be 100% wrong and accept that - but there are many signs that say much or all of these cosmetic mods were not done by AMG (nor are even legitimate AMG parts like the steering wheel for example).
steal at current bid....ton of car for the $$
Whoever buys this should .send it too BlueRidge Mercedes @BlueridgeMB to have him make it as perfect as it can be. Great looking car!
@M3INABUFU I would be very surprised to see a reserve that low on this car. Assuming it has documents (i.e. really built by AMG Germany....yes I know this car spent time in Japan) and mileage checks out. This is very rare car to see in the U.S., or anywhere for that matter. No one will be pulling up next to you at a Cars & Coffee in the U.S. with another one of these.
Very special car. Looks great. Good luck with inaugural auctions.
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1990 Mercedes-Benz 560SEL AMG w/43k Miles
Mark said:
@mbzcollector The car is represented as an AMG by your consignor and by @MBMarket, listing it as "1990 Mercedes-Benz 560SEL AMG" and @MBMarket in the "Market Insight" summary saying "In recent years the value of ‘pre-merger’ AMG cars have begun to soar. As these cars continue to grab the spotlight at auctions and private sales alike, the values only seem to be rising. " ....all strongly indicating this is a real AMG and *it's not, plain and simple*. That's deception by any other name. You know that and anyone that has familiarity with AMG's beyond surface level knowledge should know this. I see from your profile here you've bought some nice MB's (E55 AMG, C43 AMG and a non AMG E500 Limited), all great cars, so you know what a real AMG is and this is not one. Regarding your comment to @amgpro "I’m glad you have a real AMG car and this is a fake one"..... I give you credit, at least you now acknowledge this car is not a real AMG. Your car actually looks nice (as I stated below) and has some really interesting upgrades over std 560 SEL e..g OZ wheels, transmission, interior looks great etc., which I and others mentioned below. @MBMarket and you could do yourselves and everyone else a favor by fixing the listing desc (maybe to AMG "Tribute" if your into those kind of descriptions) andfiixing the misleading "Market Insights" summary that strongly implies this car is an AMG. What's with the @anyotherhater stuff? Someone asks some basic questions and brings up legitimate questions (and it turns out - their suspicions turn out to be true) and they're a "hater"?? Hater = 21st century "social media speak" - someone points out highly pertinent true facts that the recipient doesn't like and the person pointing out the truth is a "hater"???1990 Mercedes-Benz 560SEL AMG w/43k Miles
Mark said:
...the good news is you just answered everyones question about is it an legit AMG or not....and not to the way you intended.1990 Mercedes-Benz 560SEL AMG w/43k Miles
Mark said:
@blakleyleonard "I would deem it as an authentic AMG car that now has some modifications added to it". You can't be serious. So if I go buy a used MB and buy bodykit parts (even legit AMG parts from that period) and put it on the car you would deem it an "authentic AMG"? To my point below - if I buy a 993 and put RUF gauges, wheels, steering wheel - and it was never touched by RUF nor has any RUF mods - can I see that car as a RU and y=woud you consider it an authentic RUF?1990 Mercedes-Benz 560SEL AMG w/43k Miles
Mark said:
@TheMBMarket I think any of us that have bought and/or sold cars on any of the popular online auction websites are sensitive to the fact that you don't want to inadvertently (or worse intentionally) hurt someones auction. Having said that - when there are very legitimate concerns about a cars authenticity regarding how it is listed/presented, the commenters often can help clear things up (and help an auction and help a seller - I've seen legit calls mistakenly called into question) or bring issues to light that may prevent a buyer from getting a bad surprise. I think the issues that others have pointed out or indirectly referenced need to be answered: - This car is listed as "1990 Mercedes-Benz 560SEL AMG". There is legitimate question/concern whether this is a real AMG or not. That would make a huge difference in valuation. Without getting into details of what "real AMG" is -I think its generally accepted that typically it means modified by AMG (Germany, Westmont or Japan) with AMG parts NOT that an AMG bodykit and appearance items were added to a car by some 3rd party after the fact (whether from "real AMG parts" or 3rd party ones selling knock-offs as AMG parts). - As @48hp points out below - that is most definitely NOT an AMG steering wheel. Someone produced that and put an AMG logo on airbag - but not AMG Germany, Japan or Westmont. - Also as @48hp points out "The gauge faces, door sills plates and exhaust tips are period correct in appearance but they also appear to be aftermarket reproduction add-on items. - While not all AMG's that were done in Germany, Japan or Westmont received performance upgrades - that (performance upgrades) was the core of AMG's business. This car does not appear to have any AMG performance upgrades. I actually think this car looks really good. I think the transmission upgrade on this car is excellent (better transmission that was available on most pre-merger AMG's, even with AMG upgrades back then). The interior looks excellent. Overall it appears to be a very nice car. I like it a lot. If I were a serious buyer (I am not in this case), I would buy this car and send it to Blue Ridge MB (Jono) in GA and have him upgrade the engine to perform like/better than period correct AMG engine from that period and be really happy with the final product (upgraded engine with this good transmission and car in this condition) - but would not call it an AMG. Unless there is some kind of documentation or history that shows this is an AMG, then I think @TheMBMarket you are doing your customer's a disservice listing it as that. Would you take a 993 Porsche and put RUF gauges, steering wheel etc. on it and call it a RUF? I could be 100% wrong and accept that - but there are many signs that say much or all of these cosmetic mods were not done by AMG (nor are even legitimate AMG parts like the steering wheel for example).2004 Mercedes-Benz CL55 AMG w/43k Miles
Mark said:
steal at current bid....ton of car for the $$1990 Mercedes-Benz 300CE 3.4 AMG Widebody w/28k Miles
Mark said:
Whoever buys this should .send it too BlueRidge Mercedes @BlueridgeMB to have him make it as perfect as it can be. Great looking car!1990 Mercedes-Benz 300CE 3.4 AMG Widebody w/28k Miles
Mark said:
@M3INABUFU I would be very surprised to see a reserve that low on this car. Assuming it has documents (i.e. really built by AMG Germany....yes I know this car spent time in Japan) and mileage checks out. This is very rare car to see in the U.S., or anywhere for that matter. No one will be pulling up next to you at a Cars & Coffee in the U.S. with another one of these.1990 Mercedes-Benz 300CE 3.4 AMG Widebody w/28k Miles
Mark said:
Very special car. Looks great. Good luck with inaugural auctions.