Just wondering why the car now is up for sale again :)

@PCM1 they’re great photos. 

Congrats 

@brianpremium well bid and well bought. Kudos

Imo that was the KO 

@brianpremium is bringing out the big guns now :-)

Brian is on fire 
Gl
Beautiful artwork 

@RichardBuxbaum thanks for much for coming here and sharing this info
would love to connect with you on a few things
[email protected]
just send me an email!

@TheAMGKit on it. Thank you!🤞🏼

@Thomisticles 

maybe https://www.instagram.com/iamted7/?hl=en

These pictures are fantastic. Does anybody know who took them?

@PCM1 
Thought about it and there are pros and cons. When I get some extra time, I am going to try and organize the list and I'll be happy to help as many people as I can and have been doing so quietly for years. Currently, it takes about an hour to look up an AMG, or a DP935. Love the site.

Mild correction;
There actually exists a list of most of the AMG cars built in Westmont and the AMG pre-merger cars imported through AMG of NA. Good luck with your sale. 

Just catching up on comments here. 

I asked if this was a real AMG car or just a cool 560 early on below. Response was “As with most pre merger AMGs there's no AMG paperwork. Being a US car, the car would've been done at Westmont”

Misleading? 

I have to agree the description in the listing is misleading as well. 

@mbmarket you know better. 

Cool car, but come on - the whole
Pre-Merger write up…

As for the seller - every car is different but I just inspected another one of their cars and while the photos look flawless, there was a good deal of damage that was not seen or disclosed via the glamour shots. 

@PCM1  I'm still awaiting a response to a few messages I have sent last week using the message seller feature.  I would appreciate a response today so that I have ample time to address some of the items I mentioned before the auction ends please. Thank you. 

Seems we're right back here again. Going on record saying I know exactly what I'm bidding on here and not offended by it. I was raised not to say anything if it's not nice...@mfiorillo , @n883jj , and @jamesgurney lets keep it positive. The rest of you fells are free to jump in anytime. 

This 1990 Mercedes-Benz 560SEL AMG has been a California car since new

In recent years the value of ‘pre-merger’ AMG cars have begun to soar. As these cars continue to grab the spotlight at auctions and private sales alike, the values only seem to be rising.

This example is even more interesting 


Sorry but there is no way anyone reading the above and not walking  away thinking you were presenting a Pre Merger AMG car. "THIS EXAMPLE" 

Read YOUR AD??  

Great site and I was simply asking an obvious question that I tried asking directly but got no response and the seller knows why. This idea you would destroy credibility is insane. Its called IMPLIED. Why destroy trust on a site known for selling real significant AMG cars? Do as you wish your site but not a good look an day the below comment thats obvious. Its why most of us are here. 

To the seller you have a insane looking 560sel that has AMG parts and its should bring all the money but you don't want someone thinking they are getting something they aren't. 

WOW!
WOW!

The car is listed with AMG in the title referring to the AMG parts installed on the car currently, all of which were there prior to the modifications. Prior "authentic pre merger" listings that could be verified have specified language noting the location where the cars were built. Nowhere in this ad does it state this is an authentic pre-merger AMG build.  Unlike the other cars we’ve sold that were, those were specifically listed as such. We appreciate the commentary and concern from our users.

@JFarmer Nice job keeping this site friendly. I've been here since it started and while I haven't sold I have bid on and watched a number of cars. I've been here long enough to see this seller buy cars and sell cars without issue. Positively a good example and willing to bet whoever takes it home won't be angry about it....I wouldn't be. 

Amazed to see all the back and forth on this today- Authentic or not this sedan is about as good looking as I've seen in years and that trans choice might be the perfect combo. To the seller, thanks for being a good sport and kudos on the build. Looking forward to an attempt to bring this home to Arkansas. 

@mbzcollector
The car is represented as an AMG by your consignor and by @MBMarket, listing it as "1990 Mercedes-Benz 560SEL AMG" and @MBMarket in the "Market Insight" summary saying "In recent years the value of ‘pre-merger’ AMG cars have begun to soar. As these cars continue to grab the spotlight at auctions and private sales alike, the values only seem to be rising. "
....all strongly indicating this is a real AMG and *it's not, plain and simple*. That's deception by any other name.

You know that and anyone that has familiarity with AMG's beyond surface level knowledge should know this. I see from your profile here you've bought some nice MB's (E55 AMG, C43 AMG and a non AMG E500 Limited), all great cars, so you know what a real AMG is and this is not one. Regarding your comment to @amgpro "I’m glad you have a real AMG car and this is a fake one"..... I give you credit, at least you now acknowledge this car is not a real AMG.

Your car actually looks nice (as I stated below) and has some really interesting upgrades over std 560 SEL e..g OZ wheels, transmission, interior looks great etc., which I and others mentioned below.
@MBMarket and you could do yourselves and everyone else a favor by fixing the listing desc (maybe to AMG "Tribute" if your into those kind of descriptions) andfiixing  the misleading "Market Insights" summary that strongly implies this car is an AMG.

What's with the @anyotherhater stuff? Someone asks some basic questions and brings up legitimate questions (and it turns out - their suspicions turn out to be true) and they're a "hater"??  Hater = 21st century "social media speak" - someone points out highly pertinent true facts that the recipient doesn't like and the person pointing out the truth is a "hater"???

@mark @amgpro @anyotherhater

This car belongs to me and I have it up on site on consignment. Car belonged to a Japanese sushi restaurant owner that he inherited from his dad when he passed away. I then took the car and did what I liked to it to make it to my liking. “MY LIKING” @amgpro I don’t get red in the face for no one and the word “homage” is not part of my vocabulary. I’m glad you have a real AMG car and this is a fake one. I don’t recall seeing a REAL AMG anywhere in socal event that I attended. But since you’re so popular at these events introduce yourself next time would love to get some knowledge from an expert . Anyone is welcome to inspect it, 8 days sounds like an ample amount of time to do that.  

@blakleyleonard "I encourage seeing the car in person as it does not disappoint in any way."

 I saw it in person and was completely disappointed. It's being passed off as an AMG when it's not. 

I've encountered this car at Cars and Coffee in So. Cal. I have several real AMG so naturally my Son and I bee-lined to this car.  We asked the driver (owner?) to tell us about it. He turned red and said "it's an AMG homage" and walked away. We parked our legit AMG car with the "REAL AMG" license plate frame next to it and we never saw the driver again. This car is not legit. 

"NO FAKES" 

...the good news is you just answered everyones question about is it an legit AMG or not....and not to the way you intended.

@blakleyleonard 
"I would deem it as an authentic AMG car that now has some modifications added to it". 
You can't be serious.
So if I go buy a used MB and buy bodykit parts (even legit AMG parts from that period) and put it on the car you would deem it an "authentic AMG"?
To my point below - if I buy a 993 and put RUF gauges, wheels, steering wheel - and it was never touched by RUF nor has any RUF mods - can I see that car as a RU and y=woud you consider it an authentic RUF?

@Blakleyleonard “Some that do are not authentic papers”  Huh? I’ll just leave that right there until @thembmarket answers my (our) questions. Thank you for your input. I’m sure its a very nice car. 

@JAB12 @Mark I was fortunate enough to see and drive this car in person as well as speak with the current owner/collector. I found out they purchased the car in 2017 from the original owning family (son inherited from father). According to the original owner's son, the modifications were done in period and prior to 2018 when the car received a repaint and drivetrain modifications, the car had the kit, wheels, springs, shocks, gauges, and an AMG Momo M38 steering wheel. The current owner modified and restored the car to his liking which included the steering wheel, updated gauges, and a custom stainless steel exhaust among other things. With that being said, there's no claim that the engine is modified by AMG. 

Pre merger AMG cars 99% of the time do not have records (some that do are not authentic papers) and pre merger AMGs could be modified both mechanically and/or aesthetics only. Based on the origin of the car and in-period modifications the car had/has, I would deem it as an authentic AMG car that now has some modifications added to it. Was it built in Westmont or done by another authorized dealer? Unfortunately there's no way to confirm. For those interested in the car, I would encourage seeing the car in person as it does not disappoint in any way. 

@TheMBMarket I think any of us that have bought and/or sold cars on any of the popular online auction websites are sensitive to the fact that you don't want to inadvertently (or worse intentionally) hurt someones auction. Having said that - when there are very legitimate concerns about a cars authenticity regarding how it is listed/presented, the commenters often can help clear things up (and help an auction and help a seller - I've seen legit calls mistakenly called into question) or bring issues to light that may prevent a buyer from getting a bad surprise. I think the issues that others have pointed out or indirectly referenced need to be answered:

- This car is listed as "1990 Mercedes-Benz 560SEL AMG". There is legitimate question/concern whether this is a real AMG or not. That would make a huge difference in valuation. Without getting into details of what "real AMG" is -I think its generally accepted that  typically it means modified by AMG (Germany, Westmont or Japan) with AMG parts NOT that an AMG bodykit and appearance items  were added to a car by some 3rd party after the fact (whether from "real AMG parts" or 3rd party ones selling knock-offs as AMG parts).

- As @48hp points out below - that is most definitely NOT an AMG steering wheel. Someone produced that and put an AMG logo on airbag - but not AMG Germany, Japan or Westmont.

- Also as @48hp points out "The gauge faces, door sills plates and  exhaust tips are period correct in appearance but they also appear to be aftermarket reproduction add-on items.

- While not all AMG's that were done in Germany, Japan or Westmont received performance upgrades - that (performance upgrades) was the core of AMG's business. This car does not appear to have any AMG performance upgrades.

I actually think this car looks really good. I think the transmission upgrade on this car is excellent (better transmission that was available on most pre-merger AMG's, even with AMG upgrades back then). The interior looks excellent. Overall it appears to be a very nice car. I like it a lot. If I were a serious buyer (I am not in this case), I would buy this car and send it to Blue Ridge MB (Jono) in GA and have him upgrade the engine to perform like/better than period correct AMG engine from that period and be really happy with the final product (upgraded engine with this good transmission and car in this condition) - but would not call it an AMG.

Unless there is some kind of documentation or history that shows this is an AMG, then  I think @TheMBMarket you are doing your customer's a disservice listing it as that. Would you take a 993 Porsche and put RUF gauges, steering wheel etc. on it and call it a RUF?

I could be 100% wrong and accept that - but there are many signs that say much or all of these cosmetic mods were not done by AMG (nor are even legitimate AMG parts like the steering wheel for example).

@TheMBMarket can you please clarify the question since your market insight take and first hand experience driving this car implies that it is a pre merger AMG car?  It is evident it has gone through a restoration as it looks very clean, but AMG 'look' is not the same as Pre Merger AMG.  Some of us would like to decide if we bid on it or not, and having full transparency on the origin of the pre merger AMG 'tag' on this example would swing the decision.  Seems like the seller doesn't know, which is fair, but we'd like some clarity please.  We're not just tire kicking here.  Thank you. 

Is this a pre merger AMG? If no docs or even part themselves materials to support when spoiler kit installed isn't  this is a very nice 560SEL not an AMG 560SEL? Body kits are reproduced with part numbers on them as are gauges. 

 It states in ad "installed by AMG" Who? where? when? That makes a big difference in price vs installed by a body shop in LA??

 I also asked about body kit material and got no answer.

beautiful example of a 560sel

@PCM1 very nice interesting car.  Seems well preserved. Can you please post the AMG part numbers on the body kit?, I can't make photo 181 and the next has water spots. Front and rear bumper should have them accessible.  Thank you. 

@PCM1 Beautifully presented and well preserved example. Very nice.

Considering that this is said to be a California car from new, the AMG appearance package is likely to have been installed by a third party vendor in California.  Beverly Hills Motoring Accessories, specialized in accessories and offered various install options.  That said,  any competent vendor could have installed a body kit and wheels purchased on the open market.

By 1990, the grey market import window had all but shut and Gen II euro bumpers are rather rare stateside. So, if these are genuine Gen II bumpers front and back, they add value  Though, this rear bumper / rear apron appear to be of a one piece composite design. Can you confirm whether the entire body kit is fiberglass or Polyurethane or both? 

FWIW, the steering wheel is not correct and its center pad appears aftermarket/home brew.. The gauge faces, door sills plates and  exhaust tips are period correct in appearance but they also appear to be aftermarket reproduction add-on items.    

Nicely executed exhaust, shame the US single crossover and single downpipe was retained.  The OEM Try-y manifolds are a straightforward install and would have provided a nice mild boost in performance..

Again, beautiful example, wonderfully presented and considering the current market insanity, this should command a nice chunk of disposable income.

Can you speak on the condition of the paint prior to repaint in 2018.  Was the car an east coast or Midwest car that may have warranted a repaint if in poor condition? 

Are there photos of the car prior to the work performed

The suspension you said came with the car?  Specifically the coil overs or were those performed at pcm/bespoke.?  

I have the same question as a comment below:

When was AMG conversion done and where? 

“Beautiful car just determining of it s a cool 560 or a investment pre merger AMG. Great car either way”

@pcm1 understood. I still didn’t get an answer to my original question. I’m trying to zoom in on the pictures and I feel it’s a one piece bumper and spoiler. Can you verify that the bumper does in fact have metal trim that was painted over? 

When was AMG conversion done and where? 

Beautiful car just determining of it s a cool 560 or a investment pre merger AMG. Great car either way.

LOVE the look of the car! Curious, did this car have Gen 2 Euro bumpers installed with genuine AMG spoilers? Are the chrome trim on the bumpers painted or is it integrated as one piece?

Any additional information on the transmission swap? Is it a low mileage unit? What was the cost for such a conversion?

Is the Benz available for viewing, I am in South OC area and would appreciate the opportunity to physically look at it. 

The Gloss Boss with the Stance Sauce the Imperial Interior and Fanatical Mechanicals....  

WANT WANT WANT!!!!!!

Holy cow 🤯!

This is unreal 😍

very nice example. seen in person and its quite nice. Arber is the green SLS next, now that this and the black SL are on the auction block. 

@T8KC true but its ready for more with the 722.6 :) 
The only instance I've heard of AMG swapping to euro bumpers was for the US-spec WB. This is a pretty unique build, glws! 

Too bad that the engine is standard power (237).

holy cow I feel like I've never seen this gem before... where has it been hiding. nice sel wow