@Osuby1Methinks the seller has burned too many bridges in other venues with previous auctions to be considered seriously anymore. It would appear this was bought to flip and that effort has been a clown show.
The market has spoken. Again.
@SilverArrow63 Yes, a VIN search of an E500/500E will almost always return a result with the car's thread on the 500E board. Tough bunch, but you can't get a more detailed "pick-apart" for free anywhere else, not to mention what can also be very enlightening background on the car's history.
You can see a very exhaustive history and discussion of this car on the 500E board. Lots and lots of good information on it from the people who know these cars inside and out. Be sure to check it out!
And with any used car, 500E or other, be sure to get a pre-purchase inspection (PPI) on it. If a seller balks on a PPI, be leery.
Just curious - when did MBM start allowing sellers to run simultaneous eBay auctions?
Also, nearly a third of the 500Es imported to the U.S. were this color combo. There's nothing rare or unique about it as far as 036s are concerned.
A true "cockroach car" if there ever was one! GLWA!
Too bad, clearly logistics killed this auction. I could see these somewhere south of $2k if they had been in the U.S.
Nice wheels for my W215, but with shipping and a reasonable bid they'll be overpriced. Too bad these aren't in the States. Semoga berjaya dengan lelongan!
Potential buyers should review records for both upper and lower wiring harnesses have been replaced as well as if the AC evaporator has been replaced. W140s are great cars, but the pre-facelift models did have their share of issues you want to be sure have been addressed.
@NEluxuryJust as every used car has a puffy shirt salesperson, right? I predict this will end RNM. Call me psychic. GLWA!
@NEluxuryWow! Judging me sorely on what I’ve bid on? You just trashed the better part of the people following this auction. As to what I can afford, well, that’s hardly for you judge and really smacks of classism. I assure you I could easily cut a check on the spot for this or any other car on the site should I choose to.
Does this mean that to be a commenter on an auction I need to have bid on comparable vehicles to have any credibility? Nice of you to be so judgmental, thanks! I guess that MBM should install filters to limit participants to those who are deemed “worthy”? Or does my 30+ years of experience as both an owner and mechanic with Mercedes and other high line vehicles not qualify me to comment?
And to expand on the subject, it’s a far more expensive job for those without the ability to do it, like well into the thousands of dollars. I know and have direct experience with the issue, but apparently that doesn’t make my comments credible in your world. So sad.
@NEluxuryI have, as have two other owners I know. That, and a trusted MB mechanic who replaces them on any and all M156 engines that come into their shop as a precaution. Yes, the subset of engines that have or will fail is small, but considering the cost to remediate, it’s cheap insurance to do up front. For the DIY’er it’s easy enough to replace them one at a time in situ.
By discounting this known issue you’re just bringing more attention to it. Let the buyer do their due diligence and roll the dice!
Lots of marketing/puffy shirt talk to deflect concerns about head bolts…
I have one of these as well, only it's got 220k on the clock and it's still going! Great car, truly the "Camry" of the Mercedes product line!
I loves my wagons, and this looks like a nice one!
I'm guessing here, but feel pretty confident in my observations:
The cracked and damaged panels you see in the later 50s' photos appear to be a full-length "belly pan". This was a common design in this vintage Mercedes', such as the W164 and C215/216 chassis' cars. THere were plastic covers that extended from the front bumper almost all the way to the rear axle. Some of these cover critical parts such as fuel pumps or tanks, but in the past Mercedes typically just designed a cover for that area/item, not a "full length" one.
They are serviceable if the parts are still available. People often poo-poo the presence of these undercarriage covers, but they're there for a number of reasons, such as noise attenuation, protection from road debris, cooling, etc., etc. If you have these on your car, please, please keep them intact!
A buddy who has a number of W116s said the market has gotten really soft on them, and watching this, it sure seems like it. Bummer.
@wahipUnless stated as a “No reserve auction”, I believe all MBM auctions have a reserve.
Engine compartment pictures?
Just noticed there are no engine compartment or trunk pictures, either. Please post so we can get a better idea of the overall condition. Thanks!
Beautiful car, love the color! GLWA!
@DrkkrknJust to provide some clarity, a "reconstructed" title means there was some major work performed to make the car legal and safe to drive on public roads. It typically requires some sort of inspection by the state or a licensed authority deemed approved by the state.
"Rebuilt" is a similar term, but states differ in their definitions, however, for the most part, the terms are interchangeable.
In Florida, where I am directly familiar with the definition, having owned at least two "reconstructed" (now "rebuilt") Mercedes, a state inspector must inspect a vehicle so described before a certificate of title can be issued. There is an inspection tag that is attached to the front of the "A" pillar/driver's door area that clearly identifies the car as a rebuilt vehicle as well. I never had to do pictures, and one of the cars was from out of state, but both were purchased about 10 years ago.
These are great cars, I own a couple of them and have had others. Truly the "Camry" of the Mercedes line.
That said, I'm wondering how successful this will be after two swings and a miss on Bring A Trailer? (May 2023, July 2023)
A bum vanity mirror and skipping CD changer? Non-issues.
I loves my wagons, and this appears to be a really nice example with little more than normal wear and tear for the miles. Replace the sticky steering wheel telematics buttons and you’re good to go.
Good luck with the auction!
The market has spoken. I think the hammer price was pretty fair considering the car's condition and description, and the fact that it's pretty "meh" for a W116. This was never a $25,000 car under the circumstances, and likely never would be.
@motoxSo much for the “bumper to bumper mechanical inspection”, eh?
Just my point. Dealers like this acquire these cars, do little to make them complete or functional other than to address cosmetics, then turn them out to the market expecting to make big bucks.
This is a classic example of why any potential buyer should ALWAYS have a PPI (pre-purchase inspection) performed by a third party.
I wonder how many other things aren’t working on this car that would be an easy fix like this? So now the Ac works, but what about all the related things in the ACC system, like blower doors, fan speeds, automatic operation, heat, defrost, etc., etc.
@menloparkUnlikely this will attain that sort of price. It's a boring car being sold by a dealer who tarts up these cars ("received a full bumper to bumper mechanical inspection upon its purchase") to get as much out of them as possible with minimal effort (in my opinion.) I'm thinking $5k at best. I wouldn't buy from this or any other dealer without a very exhaustive pre-purchase inspection. They know nothing of the provenance.
"Air conditioning and horn are not functional." Anyone who knows these cars will see this as a major red flag. This car has the Automatic Climate Control (ACC) using a servo for all climate control functions. The vague language in the listing says nothing about heater, blower or other ACC functions - likely because they're non-functional if the servo is bad.
The market has spoken. This was a project car and the hammer price was just about what I expected. New owner would have spent more than they paid for the car to make it 100%, and that's not including paint or bodywork.
Dropping the reserve was a desperation move. The market shows that cars with this many issues, albeit mostly minor ones, can't and won't command significant prices.
@hkthemanLong story short, when you collectively consider all the issues and what needs to be done just to make it mechanically sound (not bodywork), this is pretty much a drivable project car.
I'm probably close to being a subject matter expert on W140s, and as these cars age the ability to repair or replace failed components is getting harder and harder. For example, the lumbar bladders haven't been available as service parts for some time - consider that option gone. But - you need the PSE pump to be operable for other "convenience" features, so you've got to know how to bypass these.. Add to that the close assist for the doors - many of those components are NLA, but not common failure items. If the suspension is marginal at this point, replacing rubber bits will set you back an easy $1k or more in parts alone. If you're not capable of working on the suspension yourself, probably triple that to cover the labor.
Way too long of a list of issues for me, too bad. Truly a "project car" in my book.
@hkthemanThanks for the response and he honest description, I look forward to your answer(s).
As for the rear suspension, does it seem harsh when going over bumps or like it's bottoming out? I ask because that would be an indicator that the hydropneumatic accumulators (often referred to as "spheres") are bad.
"An engine oil and oil filter change was performed by the seller in preparation for the sale." And not a whole lot else from appearances.
Other than this being an obvious flip, it's spent a lot of time in the Texas sun to have caused the clear coat to fail on the plastic parts (bumpers/door cladding).
Any chance the original wheels are still around? And how has the "worn out rear suspension" been identified, that is, what exactly has made it apparent that the rear suspension is worn out?
Does the lumbar support work on both front seats?
Tell us more, please, before we consider bidding on this car with "various imperfections".
@markwilsonIf you look in some of the other pictures there does appear to be a ding/crease in the driver's side rear pillar.
I would add that upon closer scrutiny, the weatherstripping on the rear window and windshield is shot, too. Plan on replacing them if you don't want any leaks. Window scrapers should also be considered as well, but they're relatively easy to do and not expensive.
I am confused, so maybe someone can explain this to me. In the ad copy it says: "Air conditioning controls function as well and mitigate fan speed accordingly along with temperature and direction."
OK, so that suggests that the doors and fan speed control in the ACC are working. But wait - then I read: "Additionally the automatic climate servo isn't operational and the center vent does not open for air."
I know the Type 3 ACC system well, and if the servo isn't working, then other aspects of the system aren't working, either.
So I would interpret this as a very obtuse way of (not) saying that the ACC isn't working. Can someone please clarify?
If that's the case then any potential buyers should have $500-$1000 to replace the servo or retrofit one of the aftermarket solutions.
No undercarriage pictures = big roll of the dice. The seller’s reluctance to provide even phone pictures of the underside for a car that has clearly lived in the Rust Belt is concerning.
@cm3esquirePeople who buy these cars then gut the various systems on them should be strung up, period. Neither AirMatic nor ABC, both of which I’ve had or currently own cars with, are easily diagnosed and repaired with the proper tools or competent service provider. Many of the issues on AirMatic systems are typically minor ones and not expensive repairs. Ignorance fuels the approach of replacing the systems as a whole. It compromises the driving experience and changes the car’s performance in negative ways. It makes me sad to see a well designed system gutted by some “well meaning” owner or mechanic because they’re too lazy or incompetent to properly troubleshoot the issue and repair it. I rank those folks right up with the W123/W126 hood stack crowd.
There is no such thing as a cheap Mercedes.
Agree on the undercarriage photos if it matters. Coilovers? Nope, game over, move on, there's nothing to see here...
Badges may very well still be available from Mercedes. It's going to need all new suspension rubber by now, what I could see is pretty well shot.
Are the ortho seats still working?
Hah! I prefer "unhinged troll", thank you.
If I was your buyer I would not be happy after reading your comments and paying $8k for a $5k car. This was quite the clown show.
The market has spoken! Pretty much a stripper with nothing more than heated seats, add in the accident damage, and it's a $5,000 car on a good day.
Third time's a charm?
@Mshim516That's concerning if they dealt with issues this way. I wonder how many other things they put screws in rather than fix properly?
@KingKittyI would add that the bladders for the multi contour seats are all NLA (no longer available) so there's really no repair option.
@Mshim516Multicontour seats are likely toast - the bladders in these become brittle and crack/leak which cause the PSE pump to time out. It's got other issues if the PSE pump is bad.
@Mshim516And what about the multi contour seat functions? DO they work? Does the lumbar feature work?
"The car is said to run and drive as is."
Not sure how to interpret this statement.
Do all of the convenience features function properly? That is, the seat heaters, multi contour seat backs, door soft close, etc.? Also, any chance you have the original wheels and mirror covers?
Wow! The undercarriage on this car is scary. Not sure if it's from the fabricator or just wear and tear/age, but note that a lot of the body plugs are missing, which is not good. I also like the fact that the coach builder (and I use that term loosely based on what I can see in the pictures) didn't bother with changing springs for the added load, but put spacers in them. ?!?!?!? I also like the loose wires/hoses and broad use of tie wraps to try and keep things anchored and off the ground.
Project is a good word here, but there appears to be some serious issues with the undercarriage. Stretching a car is not just a matter of a Sawzall and a welder, there are considerations for the geometry of the chassis as well as the integrity of the structure. Not sure those were taken into account with this build.
Why not remove the tires, since they're really too old to be safely used, which would also reduce the shipping costs for a buyer? I certainly wouldn't put a 7 or 8 year old tire on my car regardless of condition.
Textbook example of how a couple of goofy bidders, serious or not, can derail an auction. Too bad, looks like a really nice example.
Nice Facebook flip from Augusta!
You never responded to the question about the Dorman parts. What's up with them?
@KingKitty If it has a "14" or "15" head (the second to the last pair of numbers in the casting number - 603 016 (15) 01 ) it has not been changed/updated and is prone to leakage.
@zoccierampqtThe casting number is located above the #2/#3 injector recesses. More on this number and it's location here:
@zoccierampqtI'm not in the immediate area, so that's not an option. Please identify the head casting number if you would.
Lots of little details suggest this car hasn't been well maintained. More importantly, what's the oil consumption like and what is the casting number on the cylinder head?
@MBTech96ASR light appears to be disabled, ABS light comes on at startup, SRS light is probably disabled as there is no driver airbag.
Quoting from an eBay listing of this car verified by VIN number in 2021: "The mileage is not a typo it really has over 500 thousand miles."
@gsxrProbably because the car has over 500k on the clock based on it's internet sales history?
The big question people are waiting to address is the balance shaft issue. At 18k it's unlikely to be an issue, but how much longer can you drive the car before the engine grenades? Or do you just roll the dice and drive it until it happens, then walk away?
@JdmAutoShopWhy not just post them here so everyone can see them? Thanks!
Better verify those engine specs. The 602.912 is 90 HP @ 114 lb-ft according to factory specifications. Doesn't anyone check this sort of stuff before the auction goes up?
Darn! I was looking for a manual, and this one is an automatic. Oh, well...
Beautiful example, knowledgeable and honest seller. GLWA!
Oops! Was this a no reserve? I didn't see that if it was
Having these come up for auction. "You'd better bid to win on this one, because it won't happen again..."
Guess it might happen again...
One question: Why?
@UI_ClassicsTrue, but much of the value is in the low mileage. If there is a discrepancy in the mileage, this is quite a substantial one, and despite the "restoration" having been done there are many areas where you have no insight into whatsoever that are not only critical but a major part of the car, e.g., engine, transmission, etc.
If the engine and drive train have 160k kilometers on them, well, that's got to affect the value significantly as well. And not to pick nits, but fasteners were not galvanized, they were zinc plated typically.
This is a textbook example of how important it is to employ trusted resources for pre-purchase inspections. Or just have the folks on the 500eboard go over it!
VIN tags as shown are for U.S. spec cars only, and reproductions are readily available for purchase. If this car was originally sold in the EU, it wouldn't have a VIN tag such as the one on a U.S. car. Provenance for the vehicle prior to the November 2021 title in AZ would be a requirement if I was considering this car for purchase.
E500 specific headlights and lenses are NLA, Euro and US spec.
Duplicate comment, sorry.
This car appears to have been restored in the Netherlands prior to shipment to the US based on the following information at the 500E board:
There appears to be a substantial discrepancy in the mileage as a result, too.
@Masondixoncraig- Just to clarify (again):
Was the damage they reported to the guide itself, or were they talking about it needing bushings? For what it's worth, picture #150 is the transverse control arm (front), not the rear suspension. I've been under hundreds of these cars, and from what I can see in the picture (146) without the cover off, nothing is amiss with either rear guide (they're not called "swing arms"). I suspect the suggestion regarding wear pertained to the condition of the bushings.
Can you clarify where the damage is on the right rear swing arm? I don't see it in the pictures, or if it's there, I'm not seeing it. Thanks!
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