KingKitty said:
@zachmacFirst of all, the numbers are irrelevant. If you've owned "LOTS of V12s" then you also know that they depreciate like a lead balloon, mainly because the cost of maintaining one is well beyond what the average owner is willig to spend. I have owned at least six V12s, coupes and sedans, from the 2001-2007 era as well as those models with ABC, so I've got a bit of cred here, too. Nearly every one of those cars retailed at or around $200k in today's dollars. Most of them were acquired for under $5000. Why? Because the owners couldn't deal with the cost of maintaining them. The seller appears to be clueless about auctions, or online selling in general. You can't make claims as they have without supporting documentation, unless you want everyone and their brother to question your credibility. I think this is the major point that others, along with myself, have been trying to impress upon the seller. That, and the confusion over a salvage versus a rebuilt title is also suspect unless the seller can substantiate the change. I've done this several times myself, and it's a process with nearly every state I've done it in that is well-documented. I was absolutely interested as I know these cars well and understand their value and complexity, as well as having the ability to repair them, but without some hard and fast evidence as to the claims being made, I wouldn't touch it. That, and someone coming out of the gate with a $4500 opening bid just screams shill bidding, in my opinion. Anyone with a shred of experience and understanding of an auction would never come out that strong on a first bid. Ever. Yup, I'm a bottom feeder and I look at a lot of these as well as other cars. I'm going to expect details on the condition as well as ask hard questions because lack of knowledge, especially for things like ABC, can be a many thousand dollar mistake/repair. If you've owned the cars as you claim, you know this, too. I'm not bidding/buying unless I can get ahead of the value. It rarely happens, but when it does, the payoff is excellent for me. @Awsbaraa - No one is talking trash about the car. The issue is your lack of information to back up the claims you've made. Whether it's a Toyota Camry "stripper" (a car with almost no options) or this car, if I make statements like "everything works 100%" but have nothing to prove it, people are going to challenge those claims. You got a good deal on a very high end car last year. You're looking to make a buck off of it. If you're going to do this, present facts, don't make claims that you have nothing to back them up with. It puts you in the realm of a "buy here, pay here" corner car lot. That's all that's being asked. There's nothing wrong with saying, "I don't know." An alternative? Take the car to a trusted independent or dealer and pay for a PPI and post the results. That might set you back a couple hundred bucks, but at least people will have the information they need and not have to trust someone they don't know and have never met. And just having tht information can easily boost the value to more than cover the cost of the PPI. Used Car Selling 101, man. That's all it is.
An AC service? Does that mean that both the AC and heat are working, that is, is the ACC servo fully functional? Looks nice, not getting a lot of love here.
@pcarriYou nailed it! To @Awsbaraa - we've said this enough that hopefully it's sunk in - if you have ANY documentation regarding the condition, service, or functionality of the vehicle, post a copy of it here. I would guess that you've never sold a car online, as the one thing that will make the difference in whether or not your car sells is how much and the quality of the information you're providing. In other words, "too much is not enough," you might say. If you have documentation, post copies. I'm sure the folks at MBM will be more than happy to help you with that if you have difficulty. You can't make (verbal) claims or statements if they can't be backed up - I don't know you from the next person, I have no idea as to your credibility. That's not an issue if you have the records to prove your claims. Otherwise, people are buying based on "as-is, where-is," meaning they come into the auction with no expectations that the car is as described because the seller has no credibility. There is a reason why you have yet to get a bid, even a low one. There's no reason for me or anyone else to call you if you don't have proof of your claims or aren't willing to share them with everyone. Put it up here where everyone can see it, and far more people will take an interest and become potential buyers. It can only make the auction/car more attractive to potential buyers. Otherwise, this devolves into a sale with a puffy shirt guy on a used car lot. By providing as much information as possible, you might sell the car. If not, I can easily predict that this auction will end with reserve not met.
@AwsbaraaYou said: "Me personally did not have any major problems with the vehicle. " That implies there were problems with the vehicle. What were they? The point here is that if you've done as you said and had a dealer check everything out, you should have the paperwork from that visit stating this. Making statements that, "everything works %100 (sic)" but not being able to back this up with documentation is questionable at best. I'm not saying I don't believe you, but if you're going to make a claim like this, you need to have proof. If you can't produce this information, I would highly advise you to ask the dealer for a "VMI", a Vehicle Master Inquiry. Any Mercedes dealer can generate this for you and it will show every time the car was seen by a dealer, no matter how minor the issue, from the date it was delivered up to the present. If you took the car to the dealer for service as you state, that visit and the work performed will be on it as well. Some dealers are reluctant to give these out, but as long as you're the owner they should at least let you view it if they don't want to print out a copy. Ask your service writer for it, and if they push back, ask for the service manager. The only resistance I've ever seen to getting one is if the party requesting it isn't the owner of the vehicle. There is no better documentation of how a Mercedes was maintained than the VMI, short of the owner having all the service paperwork.
@AwsbaraaTrue, but do the seats all work, for example? These are some of the options that tend to "die" after10-15 years. Also, did the dealer go completely - and I mean COMPLETELY through the ABC system? Please provide copies of the dealer's serice report from this inspection, if you would. That would go a long way in confirming the condition of the car. I would highly encourage you to return to your dealer and ask them for a VMI on the car. You're the owner, they should have no problem giving you a copy via email or just dropping in to pick it up. This will show every instance when it was at a Mercedes dealer, any Mercedes dealer, no matter how minor the reason. I wouldn't buy a model this complex without seeing the VMI. CarFax reports are pretty much worthless other than to get information for insurance, such as damage, or odometer reports for DMVs. Anything in the way of service on a CarFax is reported voluntarily, meaning it's not terribly accurate. I would never rely on a CarFax for purchasing a car, but I would look at one to gather information while doing my due diligence. Thanks!
@Awsbaraa You're going to need more than a CarFax for provenance on a car this complex. Try getting a VMI from a dealer, that might help. Again, can you please respond as to the functionality of the options - all of the options?
In fairness to the seller, it doesn't take much to total a car like this, mainly because of the cost of repairs. That said, the the way this car is optioned out, you've got a real nightmare of maintenance to deal with, especially since it's got ABC. Having owned cars with ABC, I would caution anyone who thinks this is a "deal" to be prepared for some major expenses unless they get a PPI done - which I would highly advise. It's right in the age/mileage range where some major ABC repairs are on the horizon if it hasn't been properly maintained. If there's no provenance to support maintenance history, I would run away from this as if my hair were on fire. I'm mildly interested, but before I would put $10 down on this I would want confirmation that ALL of the options are working. Seller, you want to address this? Are every one of the options listed fully functional? Has the ABC been checked out?
Someone needs to change the title, as this is NOT a "complete kit." A very critical part is missing - the condenser. That won't be cheap. Do yourself a favour while you're shredding your hands installing this - replace the blower motor. Odds are that it's not working. And the hoses. They're what - 50 years old? They'be as porous as a kitchen colander. At least they're the old style hoses that can be rebuilt fairly cheap with modern barrier-style hoses. KK
@SAIMPORTSGuess it depends on what you consider "lucky"? That, and soliciting a purchase outside of the auction seems inappropriate. The market has spoken, this is clearly not a $5000 car. More like $3000. Maybe. Good luck!
@RichBenzer - Nailed it, buddy! Nice car, roll dice, hope it doesn't crater in 1,000 miles. I've seen many like this, and just chuckle and walk away. GLWA!
As someone who owns both W163 and W164 models, this being a first-year offering is very nice. The W164 is far more "car-like" than the W163, maybe call it "refined". Not a whole lot to watch out for on the W164, other than sunroof gears/assembly, which will set you back several thousand $$$ to resolve, and the lack of a tow package, because they're near impossible to retrofit and would be very expensive to attempt. Telematics aren't great on the early models, with a COMAND unit that is a limited production model without an auxiliary input. You can retrofit an aftermarket unit, but that's pricey to do as well - better off using a BT dongle. GLWA!
@wahipI would take exception to this, as a well-appointed example with provenance and the same miles isn't worth a lot more, certainly not $2500 more. A lot fewer of the later OM603 engines out there, since many of them cratered, so the availability of a spare (good) engine is far less than on a 300SDL. @hopOnIt - I don't think there was anything sketchy here as might be suggested, just that the seller was unresponsive about oil consumption. If they drove this car for any distance, they would know if there were oil consumption issues. You have to look at a car collectively. In this case, while it isn't bad-looking and in decent condition, a non-operable odometer with no supporting documentation can be a scary thing for a lot of potential buyers, and I get why, especially on a car like this with known concerns. The seller isn't shy about being a flipper and knows little about the car or its history, which is fine since they're giving full disclosure. So the question begs, how much risk do you want to accept, and for how much?
On this model, provenance is EVERYTHING. If you don’t know if the engine has been replaced, or the proper repairs performed, run away as if your hair is on fire. Without some sort of information to address concerns of oil consumption you are rolling the proverbial dice on this one. These engines are known to fail and fail consistently until the head gasket is replaced and and bent rods or damaged pistons are replaced. Oil consumption is the tell - if it’s using more than a quart every thousand miles or so, you’re looking at a bent rod in your future. Add to this the lack of verified information the seller has offered, and you’re looking at a big fat world of hurt for the new owner in my opinion. I’ve owned these, they’re great cars, just be sure you know what’s coming and be prepared for a BIG repair bill or engine swap if you can find one. @wahip you have pretty much nailed it.
These are great little coupes that are solid cars with minimal issues. The really sad thing about them is that more weren't built in "sporty" colors like red and yellow. You can't beat the M112 for simplicity and reliability. This engine is known to easily make it well into the 200k range with minimal repairs, usually limited to a crankshaft position sensor and resealing of the crankcase breather system. A set of plugs along the line and regular oil changes and that's typically it. If there were weak points in this model, it would be the Vario roof hydraulics and the interior plastic finish. Not speaking of this example, but roof hydraulics are probably the most common issue with these cars as they age. I would have some concerns about a low-mileage example having dried-out seals, but a quick inspection should determine if this is present or not. The bad thing about the hydraulics is that they used cylinders with hoses or lines that are part of the cylinder, meaning that if a cylinder has to be removed, you have to remove the line all the way back to the pump, which can be time-consuming ($$) Mercedes used a process for coloring the interior plastics that used a base mold of a solid color and then paint applied to the pieces for the correct interior color. Due to exposure to the sun (it's a convertible!) and normal wear, the interior pieces can have the color wear off, revealing the base plastic color. If it's close or the same that might not matter, but in some interiors, it can be rather glaring. Clearly not an issue for this example. I can't think of a more reasonably priced, luxury car convertible that is known to be reliable and economical to maintain and repair than the SLK320. Of course, there's always the AMG32, but unfortunately, they're rather uncommon and difficult to find in good condition... GLWA!
@MBALLDAYI have to question your logic, as it doesn't make sense to me. Are you suggesting that people who are not "certified" are not qualified to comment? I never claimed superior knowledge, just experience. And I'm "certified", as in NIASE Master Technician. Does that make me able to comment?
@AE327 - No, I'm not an "expert" nor do I claim to be. I do have a fair amount of experience with ABC which I am sharing. I like ABC and want anyone who wishes to own a car with it to understand that it's not a bad thing, but does require care a feeding, so to speak, and that provenance is critical to be sure you're getting a system that's been properly cared for so it will be long-lasting and trouble-free. @rick - No "perceptions" here. It's a nice car, I like it, especially the red, which is so totally appropriate for a two-seater drop-top. Many of the comments I have made could be applied to any used car, R230 or otherwise. There are some good things in the history, such as the pump replacement, that bode well for this example. There aren't a lot of shops around that will work on cars with ABC, so doing as much as possible to make sure it's in good condition and has been cared for is important for a long and trouble-free life. I'm cranked up on ABC because it's often maligned as being troublesome and expensive to fix, both of which are true. However, when it's working it makes driving one of these cars a real experience, especially when you're doing it fast and/or aggressively, such as track driving. GLWA!
@MBALLDAY"I would always take (a) car to the dealer for inspection with any older vehicle." Exactly. A car like this with a highly complex suspension system should be thoroughly inspected by a qualified mechanic before considering it for purchase. @MBALLDAY "I don't see any issues with the ABC as long as car has been maintained." And this is the key. "If it has been maintained." The fact that the ABC pump was replaced is good, but it also brings up things like, "Were the accumulators replaced?" There's a lot to this system and ALL of the parts need to be working at their best or the potential for major damage is high. That said, you can't make a statement like this without having seen and inspected the car. Service Advisors aren't mechanics, sorry.
@TalbottPKThat's great, but the key to longevity with ABC is regular, consistent maintenance, especially with fluid and filter changes. To my point, I wouldn't buy an ABC-equipped car, regardless of model, unless I knew it had been properly maintained. So many of them aren't, and as a result, stuff breaks. What makes it worse for the R230 is that several critical and unique components of the ABC system, like the pump, are no longer available from Mercedes, and the third-party options are poor, if any. A pump replacement can easily run into several thousand dollars, *if* you can find someone to do it. I know two independent shops that no longer service any model with ABC due to the lack of parts and the cost and difficulty in repair and replacement as a result. Understand that when one of these parts fails, the car is a doorstop. Then you move on to replacing the system with coilovers, which is another couple thousand dollars or more if done correctly. What a lot of owners don't understand that just swapping coilovers won't do the job - there are no sway bars on ABC-equipped cars, as ABC provides that function. So if you do a coilover conversion correctly, you'll not only replace the ABC components, you'll also need to replace all of the lower control arms, if available, as well as adding sway bars, if there is such a thing.. If the accumulators haven't been changed yet, it's time. 10 years or 50k. That will be a couple of grand to do as well, or thereabouts. I'm not saying ABC-equipped cars are bad, but if you want one, you need to go in eyes wide open. I will say it's well worth it, as the driving experience with an ABC-equipped car, especially in aggressive or performance driving situations, makes it all worthwhile. Those who have driven models with ABC know what I'm describing.
A word to the wise: Any MB model with ABC (Active Body Control) should be closely inspected by a mechanic familiar with ABC and the tools to properly test and diagnose it BEFORE purchase. It’s a great system, but must be properly maintained or risk failures that can run well into the thousands of dollars. I would be especially careful to check things like accumulators as well as running a complete “rodeo” test on the system. With no apparent provenance, I would avoid this like the plague unless I could have it inspected. That said, you should also prepare for a potential retrofit to coilovers, as the ABC pump is NLA from Mercedes. Other components are NLA as well, so set your expectations low to deal with any future failures. I researched this model heavily a few years ago as a potential replacement for an R129. When I learned what I did, I immediately took it out of consideration. I say that as someone who has owned and serviced ABC-equipped models, so this isn’t based on hearsay. Beautiful car, love the red! GLWA!
@Osuby1Methinks the seller has burned too many bridges in other venues with previous auctions to be considered seriously anymore. It would appear this was bought to flip and that effort has been a clown show. The market has spoken. Again.
@SilverArrow63 Yes, a VIN search of an E500/500E will almost always return a result with the car's thread on the 500E board. Tough bunch, but you can't get a more detailed "pick-apart" for free anywhere else, not to mention what can also be very enlightening background on the car's history.
You can see a very exhaustive history and discussion of this car on the 500E board. Lots and lots of good information on it from the people who know these cars inside and out. Be sure to check it out! And with any used car, 500E or other, be sure to get a pre-purchase inspection (PPI) on it. If a seller balks on a PPI, be leery.
Just curious - when did MBM start allowing sellers to run simultaneous eBay auctions? Also, nearly a third of the 500Es imported to the U.S. were this color combo. There's nothing rare or unique about it as far as 036s are concerned.
A true "cockroach car" if there ever was one! GLWA!
Too bad, clearly logistics killed this auction. I could see these somewhere south of $2k if they had been in the U.S.
Nice wheels for my W215, but with shipping and a reasonable bid they'll be overpriced. Too bad these aren't in the States. Semoga berjaya dengan lelongan!
Potential buyers should review records for both upper and lower wiring harnesses have been replaced as well as if the AC evaporator has been replaced. W140s are great cars, but the pre-facelift models did have their share of issues you want to be sure have been addressed. GLWA!
@NEluxuryJust as every used car has a puffy shirt salesperson, right? I predict this will end RNM. Call me psychic. GLWA!
@NEluxuryWow! Judging me sorely on what I’ve bid on? You just trashed the better part of the people following this auction. As to what I can afford, well, that’s hardly for you judge and really smacks of classism. I assure you I could easily cut a check on the spot for this or any other car on the site should I choose to. Does this mean that to be a commenter on an auction I need to have bid on comparable vehicles to have any credibility? Nice of you to be so judgmental, thanks! I guess that MBM should install filters to limit participants to those who are deemed “worthy”? Or does my 30+ years of experience as both an owner and mechanic with Mercedes and other high line vehicles not qualify me to comment? And to expand on the subject, it’s a far more expensive job for those without the ability to do it, like well into the thousands of dollars. I know and have direct experience with the issue, but apparently that doesn’t make my comments credible in your world. So sad.
@NEluxuryI have, as have two other owners I know. That, and a trusted MB mechanic who replaces them on any and all M156 engines that come into their shop as a precaution. Yes, the subset of engines that have or will fail is small, but considering the cost to remediate, it’s cheap insurance to do up front. For the DIY’er it’s easy enough to replace them one at a time in situ. By discounting this known issue you’re just bringing more attention to it. Let the buyer do their due diligence and roll the dice!
Lots of marketing/puffy shirt talk to deflect concerns about head bolts…
I have one of these as well, only it's got 220k on the clock and it's still going! Great car, truly the "Camry" of the Mercedes product line! GLWA!
I loves my wagons, and this looks like a nice one! I'm guessing here, but feel pretty confident in my observations: The cracked and damaged panels you see in the later 50s' photos appear to be a full-length "belly pan". This was a common design in this vintage Mercedes', such as the W164 and C215/216 chassis' cars. THere were plastic covers that extended from the front bumper almost all the way to the rear axle. Some of these cover critical parts such as fuel pumps or tanks, but in the past Mercedes typically just designed a cover for that area/item, not a "full length" one. They are serviceable if the parts are still available. People often poo-poo the presence of these undercarriage covers, but they're there for a number of reasons, such as noise attenuation, protection from road debris, cooling, etc., etc. If you have these on your car, please, please keep them intact! GLWA!
@PatBateman23???
A buddy who has a number of W116s said the market has gotten really soft on them, and watching this, it sure seems like it. Bummer.
@wahipUnless stated as a “No reserve auction”, I believe all MBM auctions have a reserve.
Engine compartment pictures?
Just noticed there are no engine compartment or trunk pictures, either. Please post so we can get a better idea of the overall condition. Thanks!
Beautiful car, love the color! GLWA!
@DrkkrknJust to provide some clarity, a "reconstructed" title means there was some major work performed to make the car legal and safe to drive on public roads. It typically requires some sort of inspection by the state or a licensed authority deemed approved by the state. "Rebuilt" is a similar term, but states differ in their definitions, however, for the most part, the terms are interchangeable. In Florida, where I am directly familiar with the definition, having owned at least two "reconstructed" (now "rebuilt") Mercedes, a state inspector must inspect a vehicle so described before a certificate of title can be issued. There is an inspection tag that is attached to the front of the "A" pillar/driver's door area that clearly identifies the car as a rebuilt vehicle as well. I never had to do pictures, and one of the cars was from out of state, but both were purchased about 10 years ago.
These are great cars, I own a couple of them and have had others. Truly the "Camry" of the Mercedes line. That said, I'm wondering how successful this will be after two swings and a miss on Bring A Trailer? (May 2023, July 2023) https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2000-mercedes-benz-e430-sedan-2-2/#comments-anchor GLWA!
A bum vanity mirror and skipping CD changer? Non-issues. I loves my wagons, and this appears to be a really nice example with little more than normal wear and tear for the miles. Replace the sticky steering wheel telematics buttons and you’re good to go. Good luck with the auction! KK
@motox @heshe The market has spoken. I think the hammer price was pretty fair considering the car's condition and description, and the fact that it's pretty "meh" for a W116. This was never a $25,000 car under the circumstances, and likely never would be. Good Afternoon.
@motoxSo much for the “bumper to bumper mechanical inspection”, eh? Just my point. Dealers like this acquire these cars, do little to make them complete or functional other than to address cosmetics, then turn them out to the market expecting to make big bucks. This is a classic example of why any potential buyer should ALWAYS have a PPI (pre-purchase inspection) performed by a third party. I wonder how many other things aren’t working on this car that would be an easy fix like this? So now the Ac works, but what about all the related things in the ACC system, like blower doors, fan speeds, automatic operation, heat, defrost, etc., etc.
@menloparkUnlikely this will attain that sort of price. It's a boring car being sold by a dealer who tarts up these cars ("received a full bumper to bumper mechanical inspection upon its purchase") to get as much out of them as possible with minimal effort (in my opinion.) I'm thinking $5k at best. I wouldn't buy from this or any other dealer without a very exhaustive pre-purchase inspection. They know nothing of the provenance. "Air conditioning and horn are not functional." Anyone who knows these cars will see this as a major red flag. This car has the Automatic Climate Control (ACC) using a servo for all climate control functions. The vague language in the listing says nothing about heater, blower or other ACC functions - likely because they're non-functional if the servo is bad.
The market has spoken. This was a project car and the hammer price was just about what I expected. New owner would have spent more than they paid for the car to make it 100%, and that's not including paint or bodywork. Dropping the reserve was a desperation move. The market shows that cars with this many issues, albeit mostly minor ones, can't and won't command significant prices.
@hkthemanLong story short, when you collectively consider all the issues and what needs to be done just to make it mechanically sound (not bodywork), this is pretty much a drivable project car. I'm probably close to being a subject matter expert on W140s, and as these cars age the ability to repair or replace failed components is getting harder and harder. For example, the lumbar bladders haven't been available as service parts for some time - consider that option gone. But - you need the PSE pump to be operable for other "convenience" features, so you've got to know how to bypass these.. Add to that the close assist for the doors - many of those components are NLA, but not common failure items. If the suspension is marginal at this point, replacing rubber bits will set you back an easy $1k or more in parts alone. If you're not capable of working on the suspension yourself, probably triple that to cover the labor. Way too long of a list of issues for me, too bad. Truly a "project car" in my book. GLWA!
@hkthemanThanks for the response and he honest description, I look forward to your answer(s). As for the rear suspension, does it seem harsh when going over bumps or like it's bottoming out? I ask because that would be an indicator that the hydropneumatic accumulators (often referred to as "spheres") are bad.
"An engine oil and oil filter change was performed by the seller in preparation for the sale." And not a whole lot else from appearances. Other than this being an obvious flip, it's spent a lot of time in the Texas sun to have caused the clear coat to fail on the plastic parts (bumpers/door cladding). Any chance the original wheels are still around? And how has the "worn out rear suspension" been identified, that is, what exactly has made it apparent that the rear suspension is worn out? Does the lumbar support work on both front seats? Tell us more, please, before we consider bidding on this car with "various imperfections". Thank you,
@markwilsonIf you look in some of the other pictures there does appear to be a ding/crease in the driver's side rear pillar. I would add that upon closer scrutiny, the weatherstripping on the rear window and windshield is shot, too. Plan on replacing them if you don't want any leaks. Window scrapers should also be considered as well, but they're relatively easy to do and not expensive.
I am confused, so maybe someone can explain this to me. In the ad copy it says: "Air conditioning controls function as well and mitigate fan speed accordingly along with temperature and direction." OK, so that suggests that the doors and fan speed control in the ACC are working. But wait - then I read: "Additionally the automatic climate servo isn't operational and the center vent does not open for air." I know the Type 3 ACC system well, and if the servo isn't working, then other aspects of the system aren't working, either. So I would interpret this as a very obtuse way of (not) saying that the ACC isn't working. Can someone please clarify? If that's the case then any potential buyers should have $500-$1000 to replace the servo or retrofit one of the aftermarket solutions.
No undercarriage pictures = big roll of the dice. The seller’s reluctance to provide even phone pictures of the underside for a car that has clearly lived in the Rust Belt is concerning.
@cm3esquirePeople who buy these cars then gut the various systems on them should be strung up, period. Neither AirMatic nor ABC, both of which I’ve had or currently own cars with, are easily diagnosed and repaired with the proper tools or competent service provider. Many of the issues on AirMatic systems are typically minor ones and not expensive repairs. Ignorance fuels the approach of replacing the systems as a whole. It compromises the driving experience and changes the car’s performance in negative ways. It makes me sad to see a well designed system gutted by some “well meaning” owner or mechanic because they’re too lazy or incompetent to properly troubleshoot the issue and repair it. I rank those folks right up with the W123/W126 hood stack crowd. There is no such thing as a cheap Mercedes.
Agree on the undercarriage photos if it matters. Coilovers? Nope, game over, move on, there's nothing to see here...
Badges may very well still be available from Mercedes. It's going to need all new suspension rubber by now, what I could see is pretty well shot. Are the ortho seats still working?
Hah! I prefer "unhinged troll", thank you. If I was your buyer I would not be happy after reading your comments and paying $8k for a $5k car. This was quite the clown show.
The market has spoken! Pretty much a stripper with nothing more than heated seats, add in the accident damage, and it's a $5,000 car on a good day. Third time's a charm?
@Mshim516That's concerning if they dealt with issues this way. I wonder how many other things they put screws in rather than fix properly?
@KingKittyI would add that the bladders for the multi contour seats are all NLA (no longer available) so there's really no repair option.
@Mshim516Multicontour seats are likely toast - the bladders in these become brittle and crack/leak which cause the PSE pump to time out. It's got other issues if the PSE pump is bad.
@Mshim516And what about the multi contour seat functions? DO they work? Does the lumbar feature work?
"The car is said to run and drive as is." Not sure how to interpret this statement.
Do all of the convenience features function properly? That is, the seat heaters, multi contour seat backs, door soft close, etc.? Also, any chance you have the original wheels and mirror covers?
Wow! The undercarriage on this car is scary. Not sure if it's from the fabricator or just wear and tear/age, but note that a lot of the body plugs are missing, which is not good. I also like the fact that the coach builder (and I use that term loosely based on what I can see in the pictures) didn't bother with changing springs for the added load, but put spacers in them. ?!?!?!? I also like the loose wires/hoses and broad use of tie wraps to try and keep things anchored and off the ground. Project is a good word here, but there appears to be some serious issues with the undercarriage. Stretching a car is not just a matter of a Sawzall and a welder, there are considerations for the geometry of the chassis as well as the integrity of the structure. Not sure those were taken into account with this build. GLWA!
Why not remove the tires, since they're really too old to be safely used, which would also reduce the shipping costs for a buyer? I certainly wouldn't put a 7 or 8 year old tire on my car regardless of condition.
Textbook example of how a couple of goofy bidders, serious or not, can derail an auction. Too bad, looks like a really nice example.
Nice Facebook flip from Augusta!
You never responded to the question about the Dorman parts. What's up with them?
@KingKitty If it has a "14" or "15" head (the second to the last pair of numbers in the casting number - 603 016 (15) 01 ) it has not been changed/updated and is prone to leakage.
@zoccierampqtThe casting number is located above the #2/#3 injector recesses. More on this number and it's location here: http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/289965-om602-om603-cyl-head-revision-reference.html
@zoccierampqtI'm not in the immediate area, so that's not an option. Please identify the head casting number if you would.
Lots of little details suggest this car hasn't been well maintained. More importantly, what's the oil consumption like and what is the casting number on the cylinder head?
@MBTech96ASR light appears to be disabled, ABS light comes on at startup, SRS light is probably disabled as there is no driver airbag. Quoting from an eBay listing of this car verified by VIN number in 2021: "The mileage is not a typo it really has over 500 thousand miles."
@gsxrProbably because the car has over 500k on the clock based on it's internet sales history?
The big question people are waiting to address is the balance shaft issue. At 18k it's unlikely to be an issue, but how much longer can you drive the car before the engine grenades? Or do you just roll the dice and drive it until it happens, then walk away?
@JdmAutoShopWhy not just post them here so everyone can see them? Thanks!
Better verify those engine specs. The 602.912 is 90 HP @ 114 lb-ft according to factory specifications. Doesn't anyone check this sort of stuff before the auction goes up?
Darn! I was looking for a manual, and this one is an automatic. Oh, well...
Beautiful example, knowledgeable and honest seller. GLWA!
Oops! Was this a no reserve? I didn't see that if it was
Having these come up for auction. "You'd better bid to win on this one, because it won't happen again..."
Guess it might happen again...
One question: Why?
@UI_ClassicsTrue, but much of the value is in the low mileage. If there is a discrepancy in the mileage, this is quite a substantial one, and despite the "restoration" having been done there are many areas where you have no insight into whatsoever that are not only critical but a major part of the car, e.g., engine, transmission, etc. If the engine and drive train have 160k kilometers on them, well, that's got to affect the value significantly as well. And not to pick nits, but fasteners were not galvanized, they were zinc plated typically. This is a textbook example of how important it is to employ trusted resources for pre-purchase inspections. Or just have the folks on the 500eboard go over it!
VIN tags as shown are for U.S. spec cars only, and reproductions are readily available for purchase. If this car was originally sold in the EU, it wouldn't have a VIN tag such as the one on a U.S. car. Provenance for the vehicle prior to the November 2021 title in AZ would be a requirement if I was considering this car for purchase.
E500 specific headlights and lenses are NLA, Euro and US spec.
Duplicate comment, sorry.
This car appears to have been restored in the Netherlands prior to shipment to the US based on the following information at the 500E board: https://www.500eboard.co/forums/threads/1994-e500-limited-sapphire-black-gray-16kkm-tmu-mbm-auction-scottsdale-az.18025/ There appears to be a substantial discrepancy in the mileage as a result, too.
@Masondixoncraig- Just to clarify (again): Was the damage they reported to the guide itself, or were they talking about it needing bushings? For what it's worth, picture #150 is the transverse control arm (front), not the rear suspension. I've been under hundreds of these cars, and from what I can see in the picture (146) without the cover off, nothing is amiss with either rear guide (they're not called "swing arms"). I suspect the suggestion regarding wear pertained to the condition of the bushings.
Can you clarify where the damage is on the right rear swing arm? I don't see it in the pictures, or if it's there, I'm not seeing it. Thanks!
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2007 Mercedes-Benz S600 w/65k Miles
KingKitty said:
@zachmacFirst of all, the numbers are irrelevant. If you've owned "LOTS of V12s" then you also know that they depreciate like a lead balloon, mainly because the cost of maintaining one is well beyond what the average owner is willig to spend. I have owned at least six V12s, coupes and sedans, from the 2001-2007 era as well as those models with ABC, so I've got a bit of cred here, too. Nearly every one of those cars retailed at or around $200k in today's dollars. Most of them were acquired for under $5000. Why? Because the owners couldn't deal with the cost of maintaining them. The seller appears to be clueless about auctions, or online selling in general. You can't make claims as they have without supporting documentation, unless you want everyone and their brother to question your credibility. I think this is the major point that others, along with myself, have been trying to impress upon the seller. That, and the confusion over a salvage versus a rebuilt title is also suspect unless the seller can substantiate the change. I've done this several times myself, and it's a process with nearly every state I've done it in that is well-documented. I was absolutely interested as I know these cars well and understand their value and complexity, as well as having the ability to repair them, but without some hard and fast evidence as to the claims being made, I wouldn't touch it. That, and someone coming out of the gate with a $4500 opening bid just screams shill bidding, in my opinion. Anyone with a shred of experience and understanding of an auction would never come out that strong on a first bid. Ever. Yup, I'm a bottom feeder and I look at a lot of these as well as other cars. I'm going to expect details on the condition as well as ask hard questions because lack of knowledge, especially for things like ABC, can be a many thousand dollar mistake/repair. If you've owned the cars as you claim, you know this, too. I'm not bidding/buying unless I can get ahead of the value. It rarely happens, but when it does, the payoff is excellent for me. @Awsbaraa - No one is talking trash about the car. The issue is your lack of information to back up the claims you've made. Whether it's a Toyota Camry "stripper" (a car with almost no options) or this car, if I make statements like "everything works 100%" but have nothing to prove it, people are going to challenge those claims. You got a good deal on a very high end car last year. You're looking to make a buck off of it. If you're going to do this, present facts, don't make claims that you have nothing to back them up with. It puts you in the realm of a "buy here, pay here" corner car lot. That's all that's being asked. There's nothing wrong with saying, "I don't know." An alternative? Take the car to a trusted independent or dealer and pay for a PPI and post the results. That might set you back a couple hundred bucks, but at least people will have the information they need and not have to trust someone they don't know and have never met. And just having tht information can easily boost the value to more than cover the cost of the PPI. Used Car Selling 101, man. That's all it is.1980 Mercedes-Benz 300SD
KingKitty said:
An AC service? Does that mean that both the AC and heat are working, that is, is the ACC servo fully functional? Looks nice, not getting a lot of love here.2007 Mercedes-Benz S600 w/65k Miles
KingKitty said:
@pcarriYou nailed it! To @Awsbaraa - we've said this enough that hopefully it's sunk in - if you have ANY documentation regarding the condition, service, or functionality of the vehicle, post a copy of it here. I would guess that you've never sold a car online, as the one thing that will make the difference in whether or not your car sells is how much and the quality of the information you're providing. In other words, "too much is not enough," you might say. If you have documentation, post copies. I'm sure the folks at MBM will be more than happy to help you with that if you have difficulty. You can't make (verbal) claims or statements if they can't be backed up - I don't know you from the next person, I have no idea as to your credibility. That's not an issue if you have the records to prove your claims. Otherwise, people are buying based on "as-is, where-is," meaning they come into the auction with no expectations that the car is as described because the seller has no credibility. There is a reason why you have yet to get a bid, even a low one. There's no reason for me or anyone else to call you if you don't have proof of your claims or aren't willing to share them with everyone. Put it up here where everyone can see it, and far more people will take an interest and become potential buyers. It can only make the auction/car more attractive to potential buyers. Otherwise, this devolves into a sale with a puffy shirt guy on a used car lot. By providing as much information as possible, you might sell the car. If not, I can easily predict that this auction will end with reserve not met.2007 Mercedes-Benz S600 w/65k Miles
KingKitty said:
@AwsbaraaYou said: "Me personally did not have any major problems with the vehicle. " That implies there were problems with the vehicle. What were they? The point here is that if you've done as you said and had a dealer check everything out, you should have the paperwork from that visit stating this. Making statements that, "everything works %100 (sic)" but not being able to back this up with documentation is questionable at best. I'm not saying I don't believe you, but if you're going to make a claim like this, you need to have proof. If you can't produce this information, I would highly advise you to ask the dealer for a "VMI", a Vehicle Master Inquiry. Any Mercedes dealer can generate this for you and it will show every time the car was seen by a dealer, no matter how minor the issue, from the date it was delivered up to the present. If you took the car to the dealer for service as you state, that visit and the work performed will be on it as well. Some dealers are reluctant to give these out, but as long as you're the owner they should at least let you view it if they don't want to print out a copy. Ask your service writer for it, and if they push back, ask for the service manager. The only resistance I've ever seen to getting one is if the party requesting it isn't the owner of the vehicle. There is no better documentation of how a Mercedes was maintained than the VMI, short of the owner having all the service paperwork.2007 Mercedes-Benz S600 w/65k Miles
KingKitty said:
@AwsbaraaTrue, but do the seats all work, for example? These are some of the options that tend to "die" after10-15 years. Also, did the dealer go completely - and I mean COMPLETELY through the ABC system? Please provide copies of the dealer's serice report from this inspection, if you would. That would go a long way in confirming the condition of the car. I would highly encourage you to return to your dealer and ask them for a VMI on the car. You're the owner, they should have no problem giving you a copy via email or just dropping in to pick it up. This will show every instance when it was at a Mercedes dealer, any Mercedes dealer, no matter how minor the reason. I wouldn't buy a model this complex without seeing the VMI. CarFax reports are pretty much worthless other than to get information for insurance, such as damage, or odometer reports for DMVs. Anything in the way of service on a CarFax is reported voluntarily, meaning it's not terribly accurate. I would never rely on a CarFax for purchasing a car, but I would look at one to gather information while doing my due diligence. Thanks!2007 Mercedes-Benz S600 w/65k Miles
KingKitty said:
@Awsbaraa You're going to need more than a CarFax for provenance on a car this complex. Try getting a VMI from a dealer, that might help. Again, can you please respond as to the functionality of the options - all of the options?2007 Mercedes-Benz S600 w/65k Miles
KingKitty said:
In fairness to the seller, it doesn't take much to total a car like this, mainly because of the cost of repairs. That said, the the way this car is optioned out, you've got a real nightmare of maintenance to deal with, especially since it's got ABC. Having owned cars with ABC, I would caution anyone who thinks this is a "deal" to be prepared for some major expenses unless they get a PPI done - which I would highly advise. It's right in the age/mileage range where some major ABC repairs are on the horizon if it hasn't been properly maintained. If there's no provenance to support maintenance history, I would run away from this as if my hair were on fire. I'm mildly interested, but before I would put $10 down on this I would want confirmation that ALL of the options are working. Seller, you want to address this? Are every one of the options listed fully functional? Has the ABC been checked out?New Old Stock W114/W115 Full Air Conditioning Kit
KingKitty said:
Someone needs to change the title, as this is NOT a "complete kit." A very critical part is missing - the condenser. That won't be cheap. Do yourself a favour while you're shredding your hands installing this - replace the blower motor. Odds are that it's not working. And the hoses. They're what - 50 years old? They'be as porous as a kitchen colander. At least they're the old style hoses that can be rebuilt fairly cheap with modern barrier-style hoses. KK2006 Mercedes-Benz E350 Wagon
KingKitty said:
@SAIMPORTSGuess it depends on what you consider "lucky"? That, and soliciting a purchase outside of the auction seems inappropriate. The market has spoken, this is clearly not a $5000 car. More like $3000. Maybe. Good luck!2007 Mercedes-Benz E350 w/67k Miles
KingKitty said:
@RichBenzer - Nailed it, buddy! Nice car, roll dice, hope it doesn't crater in 1,000 miles. I've seen many like this, and just chuckle and walk away. GLWA!NO RESERVE: 2006 Mercedes-Benz ML500
KingKitty said:
As someone who owns both W163 and W164 models, this being a first-year offering is very nice. The W164 is far more "car-like" than the W163, maybe call it "refined". Not a whole lot to watch out for on the W164, other than sunroof gears/assembly, which will set you back several thousand $$$ to resolve, and the lack of a tow package, because they're near impossible to retrofit and would be very expensive to attempt. Telematics aren't great on the early models, with a COMAND unit that is a limited production model without an auxiliary input. You can retrofit an aftermarket unit, but that's pricey to do as well - better off using a BT dongle. GLWA!NO RESERVE: 1990 Mercedes-Benz 350SDL
KingKitty said:
@wahipI would take exception to this, as a well-appointed example with provenance and the same miles isn't worth a lot more, certainly not $2500 more. A lot fewer of the later OM603 engines out there, since many of them cratered, so the availability of a spare (good) engine is far less than on a 300SDL. @hopOnIt - I don't think there was anything sketchy here as might be suggested, just that the seller was unresponsive about oil consumption. If they drove this car for any distance, they would know if there were oil consumption issues. You have to look at a car collectively. In this case, while it isn't bad-looking and in decent condition, a non-operable odometer with no supporting documentation can be a scary thing for a lot of potential buyers, and I get why, especially on a car like this with known concerns. The seller isn't shy about being a flipper and knows little about the car or its history, which is fine since they're giving full disclosure. So the question begs, how much risk do you want to accept, and for how much?NO RESERVE: 1990 Mercedes-Benz 350SDL
KingKitty said:
On this model, provenance is EVERYTHING. If you don’t know if the engine has been replaced, or the proper repairs performed, run away as if your hair is on fire. Without some sort of information to address concerns of oil consumption you are rolling the proverbial dice on this one. These engines are known to fail and fail consistently until the head gasket is replaced and and bent rods or damaged pistons are replaced. Oil consumption is the tell - if it’s using more than a quart every thousand miles or so, you’re looking at a bent rod in your future. Add to this the lack of verified information the seller has offered, and you’re looking at a big fat world of hurt for the new owner in my opinion. I’ve owned these, they’re great cars, just be sure you know what’s coming and be prepared for a BIG repair bill or engine swap if you can find one. @wahip you have pretty much nailed it.4k-Mile 2001 Mercedes-Benz SLK320 Sport
KingKitty said:
These are great little coupes that are solid cars with minimal issues. The really sad thing about them is that more weren't built in "sporty" colors like red and yellow. You can't beat the M112 for simplicity and reliability. This engine is known to easily make it well into the 200k range with minimal repairs, usually limited to a crankshaft position sensor and resealing of the crankcase breather system. A set of plugs along the line and regular oil changes and that's typically it. If there were weak points in this model, it would be the Vario roof hydraulics and the interior plastic finish. Not speaking of this example, but roof hydraulics are probably the most common issue with these cars as they age. I would have some concerns about a low-mileage example having dried-out seals, but a quick inspection should determine if this is present or not. The bad thing about the hydraulics is that they used cylinders with hoses or lines that are part of the cylinder, meaning that if a cylinder has to be removed, you have to remove the line all the way back to the pump, which can be time-consuming ($$) Mercedes used a process for coloring the interior plastics that used a base mold of a solid color and then paint applied to the pieces for the correct interior color. Due to exposure to the sun (it's a convertible!) and normal wear, the interior pieces can have the color wear off, revealing the base plastic color. If it's close or the same that might not matter, but in some interiors, it can be rather glaring. Clearly not an issue for this example. I can't think of a more reasonably priced, luxury car convertible that is known to be reliable and economical to maintain and repair than the SLK320. Of course, there's always the AMG32, but unfortunately, they're rather uncommon and difficult to find in good condition... GLWA!2005 Mercedes-Benz SL500
KingKitty said:
@MBALLDAYI have to question your logic, as it doesn't make sense to me. Are you suggesting that people who are not "certified" are not qualified to comment? I never claimed superior knowledge, just experience. And I'm "certified", as in NIASE Master Technician. Does that make me able to comment?2005 Mercedes-Benz SL500
KingKitty said:
@AE327 - No, I'm not an "expert" nor do I claim to be. I do have a fair amount of experience with ABC which I am sharing. I like ABC and want anyone who wishes to own a car with it to understand that it's not a bad thing, but does require care a feeding, so to speak, and that provenance is critical to be sure you're getting a system that's been properly cared for so it will be long-lasting and trouble-free. @rick - No "perceptions" here. It's a nice car, I like it, especially the red, which is so totally appropriate for a two-seater drop-top. Many of the comments I have made could be applied to any used car, R230 or otherwise. There are some good things in the history, such as the pump replacement, that bode well for this example. There aren't a lot of shops around that will work on cars with ABC, so doing as much as possible to make sure it's in good condition and has been cared for is important for a long and trouble-free life. I'm cranked up on ABC because it's often maligned as being troublesome and expensive to fix, both of which are true. However, when it's working it makes driving one of these cars a real experience, especially when you're doing it fast and/or aggressively, such as track driving. GLWA!2005 Mercedes-Benz SL500
KingKitty said:
@MBALLDAY"I would always take (a) car to the dealer for inspection with any older vehicle." Exactly. A car like this with a highly complex suspension system should be thoroughly inspected by a qualified mechanic before considering it for purchase. @MBALLDAY "I don't see any issues with the ABC as long as car has been maintained." And this is the key. "If it has been maintained." The fact that the ABC pump was replaced is good, but it also brings up things like, "Were the accumulators replaced?" There's a lot to this system and ALL of the parts need to be working at their best or the potential for major damage is high. That said, you can't make a statement like this without having seen and inspected the car. Service Advisors aren't mechanics, sorry.2005 Mercedes-Benz SL500
KingKitty said:
@TalbottPKThat's great, but the key to longevity with ABC is regular, consistent maintenance, especially with fluid and filter changes. To my point, I wouldn't buy an ABC-equipped car, regardless of model, unless I knew it had been properly maintained. So many of them aren't, and as a result, stuff breaks. What makes it worse for the R230 is that several critical and unique components of the ABC system, like the pump, are no longer available from Mercedes, and the third-party options are poor, if any. A pump replacement can easily run into several thousand dollars, *if* you can find someone to do it. I know two independent shops that no longer service any model with ABC due to the lack of parts and the cost and difficulty in repair and replacement as a result. Understand that when one of these parts fails, the car is a doorstop. Then you move on to replacing the system with coilovers, which is another couple thousand dollars or more if done correctly. What a lot of owners don't understand that just swapping coilovers won't do the job - there are no sway bars on ABC-equipped cars, as ABC provides that function. So if you do a coilover conversion correctly, you'll not only replace the ABC components, you'll also need to replace all of the lower control arms, if available, as well as adding sway bars, if there is such a thing.. If the accumulators haven't been changed yet, it's time. 10 years or 50k. That will be a couple of grand to do as well, or thereabouts. I'm not saying ABC-equipped cars are bad, but if you want one, you need to go in eyes wide open. I will say it's well worth it, as the driving experience with an ABC-equipped car, especially in aggressive or performance driving situations, makes it all worthwhile. Those who have driven models with ABC know what I'm describing.2005 Mercedes-Benz SL500
KingKitty said:
A word to the wise: Any MB model with ABC (Active Body Control) should be closely inspected by a mechanic familiar with ABC and the tools to properly test and diagnose it BEFORE purchase. It’s a great system, but must be properly maintained or risk failures that can run well into the thousands of dollars. I would be especially careful to check things like accumulators as well as running a complete “rodeo” test on the system. With no apparent provenance, I would avoid this like the plague unless I could have it inspected. That said, you should also prepare for a potential retrofit to coilovers, as the ABC pump is NLA from Mercedes. Other components are NLA as well, so set your expectations low to deal with any future failures. I researched this model heavily a few years ago as a potential replacement for an R129. When I learned what I did, I immediately took it out of consideration. I say that as someone who has owned and serviced ABC-equipped models, so this isn’t based on hearsay. Beautiful car, love the red! GLWA!1993 Mercedes-Benz 500E
KingKitty said:
@Osuby1Methinks the seller has burned too many bridges in other venues with previous auctions to be considered seriously anymore. It would appear this was bought to flip and that effort has been a clown show. The market has spoken. Again.1993 Mercedes-Benz 500E
KingKitty said:
@SilverArrow63 Yes, a VIN search of an E500/500E will almost always return a result with the car's thread on the 500E board. Tough bunch, but you can't get a more detailed "pick-apart" for free anywhere else, not to mention what can also be very enlightening background on the car's history.1993 Mercedes-Benz 500E
KingKitty said:
You can see a very exhaustive history and discussion of this car on the 500E board. Lots and lots of good information on it from the people who know these cars inside and out. Be sure to check it out! And with any used car, 500E or other, be sure to get a pre-purchase inspection (PPI) on it. If a seller balks on a PPI, be leery.1993 Mercedes-Benz 500E
KingKitty said:
Just curious - when did MBM start allowing sellers to run simultaneous eBay auctions? Also, nearly a third of the 500Es imported to the U.S. were this color combo. There's nothing rare or unique about it as far as 036s are concerned.1983 Mercedes-Benz 200D 4-Speed
KingKitty said:
A true "cockroach car" if there ever was one! GLWA!Staggered 18" Mercedes-Benz W220/215 Wheels
KingKitty said:
Too bad, clearly logistics killed this auction. I could see these somewhere south of $2k if they had been in the U.S.Staggered 18" Mercedes-Benz W220/215 Wheels
KingKitty said:
Nice wheels for my W215, but with shipping and a reasonable bid they'll be overpriced. Too bad these aren't in the States. Semoga berjaya dengan lelongan!One-Owner 1993 Mercedes-Benz 600SEC w/69k Miles
KingKitty said:
Potential buyers should review records for both upper and lower wiring harnesses have been replaced as well as if the AC evaporator has been replaced. W140s are great cars, but the pre-facelift models did have their share of issues you want to be sure have been addressed. GLWA!2008 Mercedes-Benz E63 AMG Wagon
KingKitty said:
@NEluxuryJust as every used car has a puffy shirt salesperson, right? I predict this will end RNM. Call me psychic. GLWA!2008 Mercedes-Benz E63 AMG Wagon
KingKitty said:
@NEluxuryWow! Judging me sorely on what I’ve bid on? You just trashed the better part of the people following this auction. As to what I can afford, well, that’s hardly for you judge and really smacks of classism. I assure you I could easily cut a check on the spot for this or any other car on the site should I choose to. Does this mean that to be a commenter on an auction I need to have bid on comparable vehicles to have any credibility? Nice of you to be so judgmental, thanks! I guess that MBM should install filters to limit participants to those who are deemed “worthy”? Or does my 30+ years of experience as both an owner and mechanic with Mercedes and other high line vehicles not qualify me to comment? And to expand on the subject, it’s a far more expensive job for those without the ability to do it, like well into the thousands of dollars. I know and have direct experience with the issue, but apparently that doesn’t make my comments credible in your world. So sad.2008 Mercedes-Benz E63 AMG Wagon
KingKitty said:
@NEluxuryI have, as have two other owners I know. That, and a trusted MB mechanic who replaces them on any and all M156 engines that come into their shop as a precaution. Yes, the subset of engines that have or will fail is small, but considering the cost to remediate, it’s cheap insurance to do up front. For the DIY’er it’s easy enough to replace them one at a time in situ. By discounting this known issue you’re just bringing more attention to it. Let the buyer do their due diligence and roll the dice!2008 Mercedes-Benz E63 AMG Wagon
KingKitty said:
Lots of marketing/puffy shirt talk to deflect concerns about head bolts…1998 Mercedes-Benz E320 Wagon
KingKitty said:
I have one of these as well, only it's got 220k on the clock and it's still going! Great car, truly the "Camry" of the Mercedes product line! GLWA!NO RESERVE: 2004 Mercedes-Benz E500 4Matic Wagon
KingKitty said:
I loves my wagons, and this looks like a nice one! I'm guessing here, but feel pretty confident in my observations: The cracked and damaged panels you see in the later 50s' photos appear to be a full-length "belly pan". This was a common design in this vintage Mercedes', such as the W164 and C215/216 chassis' cars. THere were plastic covers that extended from the front bumper almost all the way to the rear axle. Some of these cover critical parts such as fuel pumps or tanks, but in the past Mercedes typically just designed a cover for that area/item, not a "full length" one. They are serviceable if the parts are still available. People often poo-poo the presence of these undercarriage covers, but they're there for a number of reasons, such as noise attenuation, protection from road debris, cooling, etc., etc. If you have these on your car, please, please keep them intact! GLWA!1977 Mercedes-Benz 280SE
KingKitty said:
@PatBateman23???1977 Mercedes-Benz 280SE
KingKitty said:
A buddy who has a number of W116s said the market has gotten really soft on them, and watching this, it sure seems like it. Bummer.1977 Mercedes-Benz 280SE
KingKitty said:
@wahipUnless stated as a “No reserve auction”, I believe all MBM auctions have a reserve.1977 Mercedes-Benz 280SE
KingKitty said:
Engine compartment pictures?1977 Mercedes-Benz 280SE
KingKitty said:
Just noticed there are no engine compartment or trunk pictures, either. Please post so we can get a better idea of the overall condition. Thanks!1977 Mercedes-Benz 280SE
KingKitty said:
Beautiful car, love the color! GLWA!NO RESERVE: 1999 Mercedes-Benz CL600
KingKitty said:
@DrkkrknJust to provide some clarity, a "reconstructed" title means there was some major work performed to make the car legal and safe to drive on public roads. It typically requires some sort of inspection by the state or a licensed authority deemed approved by the state. "Rebuilt" is a similar term, but states differ in their definitions, however, for the most part, the terms are interchangeable. In Florida, where I am directly familiar with the definition, having owned at least two "reconstructed" (now "rebuilt") Mercedes, a state inspector must inspect a vehicle so described before a certificate of title can be issued. There is an inspection tag that is attached to the front of the "A" pillar/driver's door area that clearly identifies the car as a rebuilt vehicle as well. I never had to do pictures, and one of the cars was from out of state, but both were purchased about 10 years ago.2000 Mercedes-Benz E430 w/64k Miles
KingKitty said:
These are great cars, I own a couple of them and have had others. Truly the "Camry" of the Mercedes line. That said, I'm wondering how successful this will be after two swings and a miss on Bring A Trailer? (May 2023, July 2023) https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2000-mercedes-benz-e430-sedan-2-2/#comments-anchor GLWA!2005 Mercedes-Benz E500 4Matic Wagon
KingKitty said:
A bum vanity mirror and skipping CD changer? Non-issues. I loves my wagons, and this appears to be a really nice example with little more than normal wear and tear for the miles. Replace the sticky steering wheel telematics buttons and you’re good to go. Good luck with the auction! KK1980 Mercedes-Benz 450SEL
KingKitty said:
@motox @heshe The market has spoken. I think the hammer price was pretty fair considering the car's condition and description, and the fact that it's pretty "meh" for a W116. This was never a $25,000 car under the circumstances, and likely never would be. Good Afternoon.1980 Mercedes-Benz 450SEL
KingKitty said:
@motoxSo much for the “bumper to bumper mechanical inspection”, eh? Just my point. Dealers like this acquire these cars, do little to make them complete or functional other than to address cosmetics, then turn them out to the market expecting to make big bucks. This is a classic example of why any potential buyer should ALWAYS have a PPI (pre-purchase inspection) performed by a third party. I wonder how many other things aren’t working on this car that would be an easy fix like this? So now the Ac works, but what about all the related things in the ACC system, like blower doors, fan speeds, automatic operation, heat, defrost, etc., etc.1980 Mercedes-Benz 450SEL
KingKitty said:
@menloparkUnlikely this will attain that sort of price. It's a boring car being sold by a dealer who tarts up these cars ("received a full bumper to bumper mechanical inspection upon its purchase") to get as much out of them as possible with minimal effort (in my opinion.) I'm thinking $5k at best. I wouldn't buy from this or any other dealer without a very exhaustive pre-purchase inspection. They know nothing of the provenance. "Air conditioning and horn are not functional." Anyone who knows these cars will see this as a major red flag. This car has the Automatic Climate Control (ACC) using a servo for all climate control functions. The vague language in the listing says nothing about heater, blower or other ACC functions - likely because they're non-functional if the servo is bad.1997 Mercedes-Benz S500
KingKitty said:
The market has spoken. This was a project car and the hammer price was just about what I expected. New owner would have spent more than they paid for the car to make it 100%, and that's not including paint or bodywork. Dropping the reserve was a desperation move. The market shows that cars with this many issues, albeit mostly minor ones, can't and won't command significant prices.1997 Mercedes-Benz S500
KingKitty said:
@hkthemanLong story short, when you collectively consider all the issues and what needs to be done just to make it mechanically sound (not bodywork), this is pretty much a drivable project car. I'm probably close to being a subject matter expert on W140s, and as these cars age the ability to repair or replace failed components is getting harder and harder. For example, the lumbar bladders haven't been available as service parts for some time - consider that option gone. But - you need the PSE pump to be operable for other "convenience" features, so you've got to know how to bypass these.. Add to that the close assist for the doors - many of those components are NLA, but not common failure items. If the suspension is marginal at this point, replacing rubber bits will set you back an easy $1k or more in parts alone. If you're not capable of working on the suspension yourself, probably triple that to cover the labor. Way too long of a list of issues for me, too bad. Truly a "project car" in my book. GLWA!1997 Mercedes-Benz S500
KingKitty said:
@hkthemanThanks for the response and he honest description, I look forward to your answer(s). As for the rear suspension, does it seem harsh when going over bumps or like it's bottoming out? I ask because that would be an indicator that the hydropneumatic accumulators (often referred to as "spheres") are bad.1997 Mercedes-Benz S500
KingKitty said:
"An engine oil and oil filter change was performed by the seller in preparation for the sale." And not a whole lot else from appearances. Other than this being an obvious flip, it's spent a lot of time in the Texas sun to have caused the clear coat to fail on the plastic parts (bumpers/door cladding). Any chance the original wheels are still around? And how has the "worn out rear suspension" been identified, that is, what exactly has made it apparent that the rear suspension is worn out? Does the lumbar support work on both front seats? Tell us more, please, before we consider bidding on this car with "various imperfections". Thank you,41-years Owned 1980 Mercedes-Benz 300SD
KingKitty said:
@markwilsonIf you look in some of the other pictures there does appear to be a ding/crease in the driver's side rear pillar. I would add that upon closer scrutiny, the weatherstripping on the rear window and windshield is shot, too. Plan on replacing them if you don't want any leaks. Window scrapers should also be considered as well, but they're relatively easy to do and not expensive.41-years Owned 1980 Mercedes-Benz 300SD
KingKitty said:
I am confused, so maybe someone can explain this to me. In the ad copy it says: "Air conditioning controls function as well and mitigate fan speed accordingly along with temperature and direction." OK, so that suggests that the doors and fan speed control in the ACC are working. But wait - then I read: "Additionally the automatic climate servo isn't operational and the center vent does not open for air." I know the Type 3 ACC system well, and if the servo isn't working, then other aspects of the system aren't working, either. So I would interpret this as a very obtuse way of (not) saying that the ACC isn't working. Can someone please clarify? If that's the case then any potential buyers should have $500-$1000 to replace the servo or retrofit one of the aftermarket solutions.NO RESERVE: 2006 Mercedes-Benz E500 4Matic Wagon
KingKitty said:
No undercarriage pictures = big roll of the dice. The seller’s reluctance to provide even phone pictures of the underside for a car that has clearly lived in the Rust Belt is concerning.NO RESERVE: 2006 Mercedes-Benz E500 4Matic Wagon
KingKitty said:
@cm3esquirePeople who buy these cars then gut the various systems on them should be strung up, period. Neither AirMatic nor ABC, both of which I’ve had or currently own cars with, are easily diagnosed and repaired with the proper tools or competent service provider. Many of the issues on AirMatic systems are typically minor ones and not expensive repairs. Ignorance fuels the approach of replacing the systems as a whole. It compromises the driving experience and changes the car’s performance in negative ways. It makes me sad to see a well designed system gutted by some “well meaning” owner or mechanic because they’re too lazy or incompetent to properly troubleshoot the issue and repair it. I rank those folks right up with the W123/W126 hood stack crowd. There is no such thing as a cheap Mercedes.NO RESERVE: 2006 Mercedes-Benz E500 4Matic Wagon
KingKitty said:
Agree on the undercarriage photos if it matters. Coilovers? Nope, game over, move on, there's nothing to see here...1999 Mercedes-Benz CL600
KingKitty said:
Badges may very well still be available from Mercedes. It's going to need all new suspension rubber by now, what I could see is pretty well shot. Are the ortho seats still working?2000 Mercedes-Benz E430
KingKitty said:
Hah! I prefer "unhinged troll", thank you. If I was your buyer I would not be happy after reading your comments and paying $8k for a $5k car. This was quite the clown show.2000 Mercedes-Benz E430
KingKitty said:
The market has spoken! Pretty much a stripper with nothing more than heated seats, add in the accident damage, and it's a $5,000 car on a good day. Third time's a charm?1999 Mercedes-Benz S500 w/48k Miles
KingKitty said:
@Mshim516That's concerning if they dealt with issues this way. I wonder how many other things they put screws in rather than fix properly?1999 Mercedes-Benz S500 w/48k Miles
KingKitty said:
@KingKittyI would add that the bladders for the multi contour seats are all NLA (no longer available) so there's really no repair option.1999 Mercedes-Benz S500 w/48k Miles
KingKitty said:
@Mshim516Multicontour seats are likely toast - the bladders in these become brittle and crack/leak which cause the PSE pump to time out. It's got other issues if the PSE pump is bad.1999 Mercedes-Benz S500 w/48k Miles
KingKitty said:
@Mshim516And what about the multi contour seat functions? DO they work? Does the lumbar feature work?NO RESERVE: 1982 Mercedes-Benz 380SEL Limousine Project
KingKitty said:
"The car is said to run and drive as is." Not sure how to interpret this statement.1999 Mercedes-Benz S500 w/48k Miles
KingKitty said:
Do all of the convenience features function properly? That is, the seat heaters, multi contour seat backs, door soft close, etc.? Also, any chance you have the original wheels and mirror covers?NO RESERVE: 1982 Mercedes-Benz 380SEL Limousine Project
KingKitty said:
Wow! The undercarriage on this car is scary. Not sure if it's from the fabricator or just wear and tear/age, but note that a lot of the body plugs are missing, which is not good. I also like the fact that the coach builder (and I use that term loosely based on what I can see in the pictures) didn't bother with changing springs for the added load, but put spacers in them. ?!?!?!? I also like the loose wires/hoses and broad use of tie wraps to try and keep things anchored and off the ground. Project is a good word here, but there appears to be some serious issues with the undercarriage. Stretching a car is not just a matter of a Sawzall and a welder, there are considerations for the geometry of the chassis as well as the integrity of the structure. Not sure those were taken into account with this build. GLWA!NO RESERVE: 18" Staggered W220/W215 AMG Wheels & Tires
KingKitty said:
Why not remove the tires, since they're really too old to be safely used, which would also reduce the shipping costs for a buyer? I certainly wouldn't put a 7 or 8 year old tire on my car regardless of condition.2000 Mercedes-Benz E430
KingKitty said:
Textbook example of how a couple of goofy bidders, serious or not, can derail an auction. Too bad, looks like a really nice example.1999 Mercedes-Benz CL500
KingKitty said:
Nice Facebook flip from Augusta!1997 Mercedes-Benz E420 Sport w/77k Miles
KingKitty said:
You never responded to the question about the Dorman parts. What's up with them?1987 Mercedes-Benz 300SDL
KingKitty said:
@KingKitty If it has a "14" or "15" head (the second to the last pair of numbers in the casting number - 603 016 (15) 01 ) it has not been changed/updated and is prone to leakage.1987 Mercedes-Benz 300SDL
KingKitty said:
@zoccierampqtThe casting number is located above the #2/#3 injector recesses. More on this number and it's location here: http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/289965-om602-om603-cyl-head-revision-reference.html1987 Mercedes-Benz 300SDL
KingKitty said:
@zoccierampqtI'm not in the immediate area, so that's not an option. Please identify the head casting number if you would.1987 Mercedes-Benz 300SDL
KingKitty said:
Lots of little details suggest this car hasn't been well maintained. More importantly, what's the oil consumption like and what is the casting number on the cylinder head?1992 Mercedes-Benz 500E
KingKitty said:
@MBTech96ASR light appears to be disabled, ABS light comes on at startup, SRS light is probably disabled as there is no driver airbag. Quoting from an eBay listing of this car verified by VIN number in 2021: "The mileage is not a typo it really has over 500 thousand miles."1992 Mercedes-Benz 500E
KingKitty said:
@gsxrProbably because the car has over 500k on the clock based on it's internet sales history?18k-Mile 2006 Mercedes-Benz E350 4Matic Wagon
KingKitty said:
The big question people are waiting to address is the balance shaft issue. At 18k it's unlikely to be an issue, but how much longer can you drive the car before the engine grenades? Or do you just roll the dice and drive it until it happens, then walk away?Euro 1992 Mercedes-Benz 500E
KingKitty said:
@JdmAutoShopWhy not just post them here so everyone can see them? Thanks!NO RESERVE: 1991 Mercedes-Benz 250TD Wagon 5-Speed w/79k Miles
KingKitty said:
Better verify those engine specs. The 602.912 is 90 HP @ 114 lb-ft according to factory specifications. Doesn't anyone check this sort of stuff before the auction goes up?Vintage Mercedes-Benz Sign
KingKitty said:
Darn! I was looking for a manual, and this one is an automatic. Oh, well...1995 Mercedes-Benz E420
KingKitty said:
Beautiful example, knowledgeable and honest seller. GLWA!NOS, OEM Mercedes-Benz W124 E500/500E Fender & Body Parts Package
KingKitty said:
Oops! Was this a no reserve? I didn't see that if it wasNOS, OEM Mercedes-Benz W124 E500/500E Fender & Body Parts Package
KingKitty said:
Having these come up for auction. "You'd better bid to win on this one, because it won't happen again..."NOS, OEM Mercedes-Benz W124 E500/500E Fender & Body Parts Package
KingKitty said:
Guess it might happen again...Dealer Memorabilia: Mercedes-Benz Product Line Touchscreen Showroom Display
KingKitty said:
One question: Why?1994 Mercedes-Benz E500 Limited
KingKitty said:
@UI_ClassicsTrue, but much of the value is in the low mileage. If there is a discrepancy in the mileage, this is quite a substantial one, and despite the "restoration" having been done there are many areas where you have no insight into whatsoever that are not only critical but a major part of the car, e.g., engine, transmission, etc. If the engine and drive train have 160k kilometers on them, well, that's got to affect the value significantly as well. And not to pick nits, but fasteners were not galvanized, they were zinc plated typically. This is a textbook example of how important it is to employ trusted resources for pre-purchase inspections. Or just have the folks on the 500eboard go over it!1994 Mercedes-Benz E500 Limited
KingKitty said:
VIN tags as shown are for U.S. spec cars only, and reproductions are readily available for purchase. If this car was originally sold in the EU, it wouldn't have a VIN tag such as the one on a U.S. car. Provenance for the vehicle prior to the November 2021 title in AZ would be a requirement if I was considering this car for purchase.1994 Mercedes-Benz E500 Limited
KingKitty said:
E500 specific headlights and lenses are NLA, Euro and US spec.1994 Mercedes-Benz E500 Limited
KingKitty said:
Duplicate comment, sorry.1994 Mercedes-Benz E500 Limited
KingKitty said:
This car appears to have been restored in the Netherlands prior to shipment to the US based on the following information at the 500E board: https://www.500eboard.co/forums/threads/1994-e500-limited-sapphire-black-gray-16kkm-tmu-mbm-auction-scottsdale-az.18025/ There appears to be a substantial discrepancy in the mileage as a result, too.2008 Mercedes-Benz E350 4Matic Wagon
KingKitty said:
@Masondixoncraig- Just to clarify (again): Was the damage they reported to the guide itself, or were they talking about it needing bushings? For what it's worth, picture #150 is the transverse control arm (front), not the rear suspension. I've been under hundreds of these cars, and from what I can see in the picture (146) without the cover off, nothing is amiss with either rear guide (they're not called "swing arms"). I suspect the suggestion regarding wear pertained to the condition of the bushings.2008 Mercedes-Benz E350 4Matic Wagon
KingKitty said:
Can you clarify where the damage is on the right rear swing arm? I don't see it in the pictures, or if it's there, I'm not seeing it. Thanks!