@SwissBliss hey man how u doin. I can indeed confirm that it’s a 6.0 after my mechanic had it checked out. I posted about it on Reddit., and the 500e forum. I made an insta for both my r129’s. @retroredblu

Any update @ammaraj24 ?

Please don't continue the cycle of not verifying and selling to another poor schmuck later...

I understand that everybody is a little annoyed that the 6.0L status of the car wasn’t tested. I must say though that @slammer500 took a huge risk himself when he imported this car from Japan without having a stroke test done on it. And there are countless other stories of other people buying pre mergers without knowing 100% if the engine checks out. Sometimes you roll the dice and you end up with a gem. This car looks too legit, in my mind I have no doubt of its legitimacy. Since @slammer500 rolled the dice himself many years ago, I think its not too crazy for me to do the same. Let’s all be positive and enjoy the unpredictability of the pre merger game.

. 

@ammaraj24 - I will be following you on reddit for sure.... (Have never been on Instagram once in my life, not today, satan) VERY interested in how this turns out! 

Takes a bit more then just a crank, but that's ok;)

Buyer either did himself a solid or a major disservice.   Winning bidder will find out in very short order I'm sure!  Fingers crossed for you!

solid buy really nice car enjoy ! 

@ammaraj24  Good luck!  Worst case, put a m117 crank in it to stroke it - that's how AMG did it anyway.  You paid about half the value of a real one, so you have room.

Ok everybody, I just took a huge risk. Wanna stay updated follow my Reddit u/amar19901990  in r/Mercedes I posted a post titled “is this a real sl60 amg?” Or my insta: @retroredblu

I wish I had enough cash laying around for this one. The wheels and body kit alone adds so much value to this R129. Whoever wins, I'm jealous. A 6.0 M119 would be nutty. 

Also good photographs! Makes a world of difference compared to the guys that shoot with their cellphones. 

@ammaraj24 perfect!

I promise to keep everyone updated if I win this

unfortunate the seller could not check the stroke of the car. All signs lead this to be a legit 6.0 but you never know. I took a gamble on one and it paid of for me. Goodluck to all 

Screw it, I’m a degenerate gambler

@AMGAddict @SLAMMER500 Good luck with the auction and well done handling yourself.
AMG Addict:  As Prodigal said, thanks for stopping in. We all know how you feel here. Good luck to all bidding. 

Eating popcorn watching the ridiculous bids so far. Guys this ain’t all original you’re bidding like crazy

@ProdigalPetrolHead  Yes, I do hope the winner keeps us informed. I'm even torn on whether to roll the dice myself.  Do I trust humanity or not?  ;)

@BenzClassic I bought a real 500sl 6.0 on BaT that was built my AMG on a new car at Affalterbach (not a later conversion) and had the paperwork to prove it.  But, it has been "upgraded" to the second gen AMG bodykit and larger wheels.  I was able to source the correct body kit and wheel and have it all painted and installed.  Cost me about $25k all in.  Not worth doing financially if it's not a real car, but it can be done.  For sure.

I'm already dying to know the results here. This is a superior looking R129, maybe the best looking one I've seen. Early AMG body is so much more rare and better looking than the facelifts. I imagine it would be very expensive and difficult to replicate this even from a mere aesthetic standpoint. 

@ALeventhal Hopefully the winner keeps us informed and for their sake, I hope beyond everything else they find it IS a 6.0. Absolute worst case- the winner is getting a VERY cool 129. Good luck to all!

@ProdigalPetrolHead  Well, of course you're literally correct that not every euro r129 decodes like that. But, every euro 500sl from the right years, DOES.  And, if you think about it, they MUST, because MB could NOT have known when they issued the VIN which cars would be later converted by AMG Japan.

@ProdigalPetrolHead  The optimist in me says this is a good gamble and if it turns out to be real, it could be a bargain.  The cynic in me says if it was real the seller would have taken the literal *15 minutes* to prove it, and the fact that he hasn't is a pretty good indication that it's fake.  

@124guy  Just checked that decoder, specifically shows "500 SL / AMG 500 SL 6.0". 

PSA Not every euro 129 decodes like that. 

@ammaraj24 has the right attitude. Could be a gamble at this point but there's some risk. Sounds like fun to some of us. @AMGAddict, thanks for stopping by, 

Excited to watch this and FWIW, I may not be the leading expert on pre-merger cars but there's a lot of good going for this one. Additionally, this might be the best looking 129 I've seen in some time. AMG cosmetics shouldn't be shrugged off. 

@124guy *ALL* Non-US r129 decode that was as 500sl or 6.0.  It means nothing.

Feeling sad for the winning loser. Do your research guys

@AMGAddict hahaha, we gamblin at this point. YOLO!

I think there's a very real possibility this is a legit 6.0. The VIN even decodes as a 6.0 on mbdecoder. I've seen many with brand new ebay stickers trying to be AMG but these are aged appropriately. If I was a betting man... I'm going 6.0. 

the seller has not provided ANY evidence of the engine being a 6.0. Whoever ends up with this is getting nothing more than a really nice kitted out 500SL. It’s already so overpriced, especially for the mileage. I can get a mint condition much lower mileage 500SL for half the price

LOL it ain’t original

@SLAMMER500 Were you able to confirm the stroke? If not, what remedy will you offer a buyer who gets it home and finds it is not a 6.0 (if that were to happen)?

@charltons, the R129 and W124 are stable up to the 155mph / 250kph speed limiter present on most models capable of exceeding those speeds (500SL with LH-SFI, all 500E/E500). Ditto for the 140 S-class. Nothing terrifying about it. I've not been in an F40 for comparison though. :)

@charltons I did 220 in my 1990 500SL multiple times. Stable af, better than most modern cars.

@aleventhal Lol! I'd be terrified to do close to 300kph in anything from the early 90's other than in an F40! 

@charltons I guess the 280KM/H top speed run was proof enough of it's 6.0 status.  Perhaps this seller could do that if he can't measure the stroke.  ;)

@aleventhal https://www.pcarmarket.com/auction/1991-mercedes-benz-500sl-60-amg-pre-merger/

@charltons I didn't see that auction, and can't find it, but my absolutely real, German market 500sl 6.0, which was built by AMG at Affalterbach as a new car, with full documentation from AMG to prove it, sold for only $85k at Bonhams Amelia Island sale this past spring (just a few months ago).  So, I don't think anything much more than the current bid would be a good deal for a car that may well by a 5.0 / fake.  More importantly, why would any seller not prove the legitimacy of a car on offer?  My car sold with both build sheets from AMG and stroke measurements.  It's madness to do otherwise, unless the seller themselves have doubts...

An un-verified 6.0, very similar to this car, sold on pcar market a few months for $95k, by the looks of it, this has a long way to go or someone is gonna be getting a crazy deal. 

Screw it, I aped into bitcoin, at least this is tangible… loool

@R129hoarder Yes, mine is an AMG Japan car as well. 

@Youngclassicamg I did, and he said he’s out of town… sooo… yea. I’m withholding my bid until it is proven to be a 6.0.

Considering the Value on the table 5 vs 6.0 taking a few minutes to measure stroke a few times is really the way to go.  Even if your measurement isn't Perfect you'll know if it's over 85 mm or not by any significant amount.  Having two people helps.  You CAN do it with the fan clutch on from under the car, but if under isn't an option you'll need to remove the fan clutch.  

@Youngclassicamg  Having a PPI performed at one bidder's expense really isn't fair.  If it turns out the car is not a 6.0, that bidder will be out their money.  If it is a real 6.0 then all the other bidders will be willing to pay more at the expense of the bidder who performed the PPI.  The only fair and equitable way for  this situation to me resolved is for @SLAMMER500 to measure the stroke and post video or photos of the process.  That's fair for everyone and it's such a simple procedure, there is really no good reason not to do it.  

And, I am a pre-merger AMG owner and would be a player on this car if it were proven to be a real 6.0.

@blakleyleonard Good to see you chiming in on this. Interesting re the stamps...Was yours also a Japanese car?

@blakleyleonard same story with my 1990 500SL 6.0 . I could not find the markings on the block and my radiator stickers were faded however I did find relays with amg logos so then I measured the stroke it took 15 min and now I can sleep soundly haha . It is much more responsive and has more torque . 

@SwissBliss the seller clearly stated to send him a private message to do a ppi. If your a serious buyer call the guy and figure it out he seems to be responding and in his defense you cant find all of those decals that he has I’ve personally never seen some of them. 

@WDB748372 When I bought my 6.0 I was under the impression that it was likely not a 6.0 engine. I had a friend look at it for me prior to purchasing and couldn't find any AMG stamps on the block. When I received the car, the only thing I could make out was a stamp that appeared to read 5.3? Not really sure as it was extremely difficult to make out. Regardless, nothing was stamped AMG but similar to this one, the radiator support sticker designated the engine as a 6.0 and was aged appropriately for the car. After purchasing the car, I had my mechanic measure the stroke as that was really the only way I could verify for sure and it turned out to be a 6.0 with a 95mm stroke. Driving it certainly feels like more torque and aggressive throttle response compared to a standard 5.0 as well. So many factors can effect the driving aspect though so that's not always a for sure sign. 

Am I the only one feeling the seller is constantly dogging the engine questions. Does he not understand that the body parts bring negligible value to this car unless there is 100% certainty this is a true 6.0 AMG?!?!!?!

I would even bet that he is losing money vs just being advertised as a 500SL. $50-$100k+ left on the table without evidence. Even if a PPI was $5k, it is an insane decision if the seller truly knows the provenance of the vehicle. And it is also a glaring red flag if the seller does not go to whatever lengths necessary, big or small, to confirm this is a true 6.0 AMG...

Don't even get me started on the likely lost value vs. just being honest, of this due to the seller not publishing or (even worse) not pursuing this information within the next 7 days.

I for one am withholding a bed until proper evidence is presented....

!Remind me 6 days!

@SLAMMER500 - two things 1) once the real pre-merger cars broke $200K, all kinds of fakes started popping up. 15 years ago, faking wasn't ROI positive. The level of stuff you see (from body kits to stickers) on eBay is nuts 2) As all the original AMG records burned AND AMG did ANYTHING from just cosmetics to full builds and AMG Japan was it's own thing, all kinds of outcomes are possible. Post my bad experience, EVERYTHING was real AMG except the engine. We will NEVER know if it was built by AMG Japan as a 6.0 car and the OG motor was removed at some point or if it was a cosmetic only real AMG 500 and someone changed the badges and engine cover. But, there is a large value diff in a cosmetic 500 and a full 6.0 (or even 7). It's a very fair ask. A stroke measurement will go a long way for you. No one wants to pay $2,000 like I did to find (no fault of yours) it's not a real 6.0 car.

@SLAMMER500 True about the real AMG stickers and signs, but all stickers we see are on the spoilers, skirts and cosmetic AMG refinements, but the true value is in the engine... So yes please, assure us about the engine. Thank you.

In general it is true, Japanese love to put stickers and the AMG replica tags are available on Ebay. 
So for peace of mind, it would be good some proof of AMG engine 6.0 could be given. 
I agree with KalleRiccar on that matter, without further proof it is a VERY nice 500SL.

@ALeventhal - stroke was exactly how they caught mine was 5.0 in the PPI!

@Seller Can you please post photos or a video measuring the stroke?  That would be very easy to do, and would eliminate any questions or confusion once and for all.  Obviously, this car is worth much more if you can demonstrate it actually is a 6.0.  Thank you.

I have a 1990 and just measured the stroke. M119 6.0L AMG = 100mm bore - 94.8mm stroke
M119 5.0L = 96.5mm bore - 85mm stroke

Great looking car looking forward to the outcome glwts .

@SLAMMER500, can you please post a photo of the engine serial number? It's located at the top / front of the block, below the area on the intake with the 3 coolant temp sensors. Here's a photo of what the serial will look like:

https://www.w124performance.com/images/M119/M119_engine_number_late.jpg

@ccutler05, yes, the 6.0 has a stroke about 10mm longer. This can be measured by removing a spark plug, removing the fan clutch, and rotating the engine by hand with a long 3/8" extension bar in the hole. Measure top vs bottom of stroke, compare to factory specs. I did this when I bought a 6.0L years ago that was not making full power, it felt like a 5.0L. In my case it was a real 6.0L but with plugged catalysts. Replaced the cats and it was back to full power. 

A dyno graph or dragstrip timeslip can also prove 6.0L... but *only* if it's making full power... in the scenario I described above, this would not have been sufficient. As @WDB748372 mentioned, there is a BIG difference behind the wheel for 5.0 vs 6.0 power levels. 

@gsxr and others, the 6.0s were stroked right?  Could the seller pop out a spark plug and measure total piston travel to confirm and compare vs a known M119 5.0?

I've also never come across any that didn't have an AMG stamp on the engine.

The right driving video should clear it up for the most part imo. I do have a later M119 6.0 (ME). It scoots. It's quite noticeable compared to a 500 engine or even the M113 5.4 NA. 

If it helps any serious buyer with their potential purchase, I can provide a similar driving video. Perhaps @blakleyleonard can comment on the AMG engine stamp, or lack thereof, from his 6.0 and on the driving video tomorrow. Hopefully it won't be a 20mph cruise around the neighborhood. 

FWIW, I bought a very similar car a few years ago- Japanese AMG “6.0l” with a long story of being originally ordered by a Middle East Prince... It just didn’t feel like it had any more power than a 5.0 R129, so I checked the engine stamping- which you can see with engine in car- and it was NOT stamped as an AMG should be.  Do you think AMG builds the engine and just forgets to stamp it?  You can pull the valve cover and check cams for AMG part number, or check stroke through spark plug hole to confirm.

I have bought several 90’s Japanese cars.  AMG parts could be bought al la carte, and the Japanese love putting stickers and labels on everything. 

The real value and attraction of these is the 6.0l AMG engine, so without confirmation, it just a nice SL500.

A PPI can get to if it's a 6 liter or 5 liter. I won't shame the dealer here (known in California) but was about to buy one and the PPI revealed a 5 liter engine. Paperwork from Japan export said 6 liter. Was the engine swapped at some point to put in a much more valuable Hammer wide body? Or was it always an authentic AMG appearance only car. We will never know. Worse, they put it into a known auction w/o revealing the PPI said 5 liter after I passed on the car. Buyer beware always.

prime example of early AMG but lack of proof that the engine is really 6.0 is bad news. especially it is japan amg car so it COULD be just outside package... 

I can’t find the vin on carfax.ca

@McTrouble  the AMG supplement book specifically shows the new stamping should be on the pad on the back of the block.  It can be seen with a flashlight and mirror.

AFAIK, all AMG 6.0L M119's will have an AMG stamping & serial somewhere on the block. @jhodg5ck?

@BigMack107 Not all cars had a stamped block but I'd be curious to see if there's one on this one as well. 

Hi, I am missing the proof that there ist the 6.0 engine built in. Can you show the stamp in the motor that shows the AMG embossment, please? It is hardly reachable at the rear part of the motor.